The 2024 Draft. Tonight's the night...

[babababa]

1 hour ago, SemperFeist said:

The issue with a guy like Bo Nix, and to some extent Penix, isn’t their age per se, it’s where they are as prospects in relation to their experience level. Frankly, they both should look better than they have given the number of games they’ve played. 

Joe Burrow was 23 when he was drafted, but he had only started 28 collegiate games. Where his development was in relation to his playing experience was exceptional, and why he was easily the #1 overall pick. 

Bo Nix has started 61 collegiate games, the most in NCAA history, and we’re still asking some pretty significant questions about his ability. 

"Frankly, they both should have look better than they have given the number of games they've played"

???

Are you talking about the eye test or what? Because statistically Penix and Nix crushed it. They had better stats than Maye or McCarthy. McCarthy's stats don't pop at all. That's not to say they aren't good prospects.

"They both should have looked better..." is completely vague and isn't going to win an argument with the 2nd and 3rd place Heisman candidates.

You go on to talk about Burrow being the #1 overall pick. I'm not comparing the players. I'm comparing the age of the players coming into the league, not how it should have affected their college career. I'm not even sure there's a study I need to argue about with that and how it translates to NFL success but if you want to throw one at me please do. It would bolster your argument. If you want to talk about how it affects QBs coming into the league at 19 versus 23 I'm all ears. If you want to say how these guys should have been as awesome as Burrow in college forget it. Looking at Penix though he's been amazing (not exceptional) the last 2 years -- years he wasn't injured.

I'm talking about drafting Penix at 11 not #1. Is it a reach, yes. You miss out on the player if you don't though. If they draft McCarthy at 11 that's great too. 

[vike daddy]

O'Connell:

"As you continue to do more work on this year's draft – not just at the quarterback position but defensively, different aspects of O-line, D-line, it's a really deep draft – and we really think it's deep between our 11th pick and that 23rd pick that we were able to acquire, where you're really talking about adding, potentially, two difference-makers to your team."

"That's the flexibility we really wanted when considering what we were able to do in that trade. And it's rare to do a trade like that early in the process; we felt like that was kind of a draft-day kind of trade that we were able to make early and then maybe not pay the extreme price tag that you do when people tend to know what you may be going up for."

"If you go into it with a stubborn mind of, 'It's got to be this and this alone,' it could be problematic. My job in this process is to evaluate the quarterbacks, build relationships with these guys and really envision what it's going to look like for the long term with that player being a Minnesota Viking – figuring out how that fits in comparison with every one of them if you throw them up on a board.

"And then ultimately, working with Kwesi and Rob and the rest of our organization to figure out how we tactically go based upon our options. Maybe it is another team we're able to work with to try to get to a place that, we feel like that player is worthy to go get and is somebody we want to build around for the foreseeable future by going to do something like that. That is a major, major organizational decision."

https://www.vikings.com/news/adofo-mensah-o-connell-nfl-draft-first-round-options-2024

 

[Duluther]

26 minutes ago, babababa said:

"Frankly, they both should have look better than they have given the number of games they've played"

???

Are you talking about the eye test or what? Because statistically Penix and Nix crushed it. They had better stats than Maye or McCarthy. McCarthy's stats don't pop at all. That's not to say they aren't good prospects.

"They both should have looked better..." is completely vague and isn't going to win an argument with the 2nd and 3rd place Heisman candidates.

+1

"Should have looked better," by what metric? Nix led the nation in a ton of advanced metrics, and Penix's stats are evidence to explosive and efficient college quarterback play.

So are we just saying they should look better based on the eye test? Because I'm going to be honest: I don't trust anyone's eye-test summations, whether draft scouts or FF posters. 

[PrplChilPill]

56 minutes ago, vike daddy said:

O'Connell:

"As you continue to do more work on this year's draft – not just at the quarterback position but defensively, different aspects of O-line, D-line, it's a really deep draft – and we really think it's deep between our 11th pick and that 23rd pick that we were able to acquire, where you're really talking about adding, potentially, two difference-makers to your team."

"That's the flexibility we really wanted when considering what we were able to do in that trade. And it's rare to do a trade like that early in the process; we felt like that was kind of a draft-day kind of trade that we were able to make early and then maybe not pay the extreme price tag that you do when people tend to know what you may be going up for."

"If you go into it with a stubborn mind of, 'It's got to be this and this alone,' it could be problematic. My job in this process is to evaluate the quarterbacks, build relationships with these guys and really envision what it's going to look like for the long term with that player being a Minnesota Viking – figuring out how that fits in comparison with every one of them if you throw them up on a board.

"And then ultimately, working with Kwesi and Rob and the rest of our organization to figure out how we tactically go based upon our options. Maybe it is another team we're able to work with to try to get to a place that, we feel like that player is worthy to go get and is somebody we want to build around for the foreseeable future by going to do something like that. That is a major, major organizational decision."

https://www.vikings.com/news/adofo-mensah-o-connell-nfl-draft-first-round-options-2024

 

smoke screen.....though I'll be honest and say I'm actually ok passing on McCarthy in a trade up....and getting two really good starters. 

[vike daddy]

10 minutes ago, PrplChilPill said:

smoke screen.....though I'll be honest and say I'm actually ok passing on McCarthy in a trade up....and getting two really good starters. 

i'm guessing they want Maye.

whether they can get him or not is a different story.

[PrplChilPill]

8 minutes ago, vike daddy said:

i'm guessing they want Maye.

whether they can get him or not is a different story.

I have no idea who they want.....but I do believe that whole speech was bunk.

[SemperFeist]

25 minutes ago, PrplChilPill said:

and getting two really good starters. 

What is your definition of good starter? 

[vike daddy]

5 minutes ago, PrplChilPill said:

but I do believe that whole speech was bunk.

i don't know, did it say anything other than all options are open?

maybe that's what you think is bunk, that they're considering anything other than a QB, but they could also be saying as much as we want one we may not be able to get one. so have to be open to other scenarios.

[swede700]

53 minutes ago, Duluther said:

+1

"Should have looked better," by what metric? Nix led the nation in a ton of advanced metrics, and Penix's stats are evidence to explosive and efficient college quarterback play.

So are we just saying they should look better based on the eye test? Because I'm going to be honest: I don't trust anyone's eye-test summations, whether draft scouts or FF posters. 

It took Nix 5 years to lead the nation.  Daunte Culpepper looked like a MVP/HoF candidate when he had Linehan spoonfeeding him the offense.  That's the reason statements are made that he should have looked better.  Maybe the light just went on for Nix, but he was just plain awful at Auburn, and no one can dispute that, eye test or advanced metrics.  That's why there are questions.

There are certainly less questions about Penix, outside of the fact that you don't know if he's fully clear from the injuries as he has been for 2 years now, or if he is just one play away from the stretcher again.  That's a major question.  We've been blessed for the most part with having Mr. Durability at QB, but that's the only stretch over the past 20 years that the Vikings haven't had to worry about their QB getting injured.   

[PrplChilPill]

5 minutes ago, SemperFeist said:

What is your definition of good starter? 

I guess starter from day 1 who starts (unless hurt) for 5 years......but I expect 11 and 23 for one to be that plus better, and one average guy. I'd not die if that was the decision (say, DT and Powers-Johnson) or CB and P-J. 

[PrplChilPill]

5 minutes ago, vike daddy said:

i don't know, did it say anything other than all options are open?

maybe that's what you think is bunk, that they're considering anything other than a QB, but they could also be saying as much as we want one we may not be able to get one. so have to be open to other scenarios.

I think they are planning, just in case, but I think they expect to trade up for a QB.

[swede700]

4 minutes ago, vike daddy said:

i don't know, did it say anything other than all options are open?

maybe that's what you think is bunk, that they're considering anything other than a QB, but they could also be saying as much as we want one we may not be able to get one. so have to be open to other scenarios.

Agree.  You have to be mentally prepared for every scenario, even one that involves not moving up at all.  Like KAM said a week or so ago, there's certainly a preferred scenario, but that may not happen...therefore, everyone, including the HC, has to be prepared for that situation and determine what to do if they can't get the QB they are targeting. 

[vike daddy]

19 minutes ago, PrplChilPill said:

I think they are planning, just in case, but I think they expect to trade up for a QB.

yes, i think it's their preferred scenario also. but maybe no one wants to trade down and wants to take our targeted QB's themselves.

or 3 out of the top 4 are selected right away and we have the ability to trade up for #4, but #4 isn't the QB we want.

 

that's really the bigger question, and bigger unknown to us... would the Vikings trade up and draft ANY of the top four QB's if available?

[swede700]

10 minutes ago, vike daddy said:

that's really the bigger question, and bigger unknown to us... would the Vikings trade up and draft ANY of the top four QB's if available?

That certainly is the question...and one we don't have the answer to.  I'd certainly be okay with any of them.  As far as the other 2 frequently mentioned, I'd be okay with either of them at #23 or even later, but under no circumstances would I be pleased if they were to take either one at #11, because that would be a repeat of the Ponder situation as far as I'm concerned (although I'd hold out hope that the result would be different).   

[Worm Guts]

48 minutes ago, swede700 said:

It took Nix 5 years to lead the nation.  Daunte Culpepper looked like a MVP/HoF candidate when he had Linehan spoonfeeding him the offense.  That's the reason statements are made that he should have looked better.  Maybe the light just went on for Nix, but he was just plain awful at Auburn, and no one can dispute that, eye test or advanced metrics.  That's why there are questions.

 

He wasn’t impressive at Auburn, but I don’t know that I would use the word awful. Very average is more like it. Although the fact that he was the starter day 1 as a freshman might be considered impressive.