The 2024 Draft. Tonight's the night...

[swede700]

6 minutes ago, Worm Guts said:

He wasn’t impressive at Auburn, but I don’t know that I would use the word awful. Very average is more like it. Although the fact that he was the starter day 1 as a freshman might be considered impressive.

That may be fair, but in 2021, in the SEC, at least in PPA/play (minimum of 100 plays), he was worse than Bennett, Hooker, Young, KJ Jefferson, Levis, Anthony Richardson, Connor Bazelak (Mizzou), Max Johnson (LSU), and Will Rogers (Miss St). 

And that wasn't much better than in 2020.  I'll certainly acknowledge that he's been a far different player the last 2 years...I just question the reason for it.  Did the light bulb just pop on, or is it reminiscent of Linehan spoon-feeding Daunte?

[Worm Guts]

14 minutes ago, swede700 said:

That may be fair, but in 2021, in the SEC, at least in PPA/play (minimum of 100 plays), he was worse than Bennett, Hooker, Young, KJ Jefferson, Levis, Anthony Richardson, Connor Bazelak (Mizzou), Max Johnson (LSU), and Will Rogers (Miss St). 

And that wasn't much better than in 2020.  I'll certainly acknowledge that he's been a far different player the last 2 years...I just question the reason for it.  Did the light bulb just pop on, or is it reminiscent of Linehan spoon-feeding Daunte?

If the offensive coordinator spoon-feeding the QB gets 2003 Culpepper results, then that’s not a bad thing, as long as we have a coach capable of that.

[swede700]

2 minutes ago, Worm Guts said:

If the offensive coordinator spoon-feeding the QB gets 2003 Culpepper results, then that’s not a bad thing, as long as we have a coach capable of that.

Unfortunately, as with Culpepper, that's not consistent and not sustainable. 

[Duluther]

2 hours ago, swede700 said:

It took Nix 5 years to lead the nation.  Daunte Culpepper looked like a MVP/HoF candidate when he had Linehan spoonfeeding him the offense.  That's the reason statements are made that he should have looked better.  Maybe the light just went on for Nix, but he was just plain awful at Auburn, and no one can dispute that, eye test or advanced metrics.  That's why there are questions.

There are certainly less questions about Penix, outside of the fact that you don't know if he's fully clear from the injuries as he has been for 2 years now, or if he is just one play away from the stretcher again.  That's a major question.  We've been blessed for the most part with having Mr. Durability at QB, but that's the only stretch over the past 20 years that the Vikings haven't had to worry about their QB getting injured.   

So “should have looked better” is to mean “he is expected to be better because of his experience ,” rather than “I expected him to look better due to his experience”. Is that accurate?

[swede700]

I think most of us here know that the Vikings haven't drafted a DE in the first 2 rounds since 2005 (Erasmus James).  The only teams that have waited longer on drafting a position in the first 2 rounds are:

Dallas Cowboys - Safety - 2002 (Roy Williams)

New Orleans - Tight End - 1998 (Cam Cleeland) - Jimmy Graham was a 3rd rd pick in 2010

Washington - Interior OL - 1995 (C Cory Raymer)

Seattle - Quarterback - 1993 (Rick Mirer)

The Vikings have drafted every other position group other than DE in the last 10 years in the first 2 rounds, with DT the longest ago at 2013 (Sharrif Floyd).

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 1 by swede700

[swede700]

 

[swede700]

43 minutes ago, Duluther said:

So “should have looked better” is to mean “he is expected to be better because of his experience ,” rather than “I expected him to look better due to his experience”. Is that accurate?

I'd like to call it the Brady Anderson effect...if you remember that guy from 1990s baseball.  He was a middling baseball player for several years then all of a sudden he hit 50 HRs.  Does that mean the light went on?  Or is there another reason...in his case, it probably was steroids.  Now, that's certainly not the case for Nix, but it generates a multitude of questions...and I'm not taking a guy in the first round who has those kinds of questions because I don't know which version he is as they are so dramatically different. 

Edited April 1 by swede700

[ArcticNorseman]

Not an April fool's joke, but if the Vikes are feeling confident on supporting cast after pick 23 is spent on Newton ot Murphy (assuming 11 nabbed Turner or Verse),  would this mean they're comfy with Darnold? Or, are they over-zealous a 4th rounder would fill the void?

Is Milton moldable?   Does Pratt have any semblance he belongs on a roster?  

If KAM puts players in Flores' stable, does this team have enough to carry a young midling -- and win the division?

[Captain Relax]

26 minutes ago, ArcticNorseman said:

Not an April fool's joke, but if the Vikes are feeling confident on supporting cast after pick 23 is spent on Newton ot Murphy (assuming 11 nabbed Turner or Verse),  would this mean they're comfy with Darnold? Or, are they over-zealous a 4th rounder would fill the void?

Is Milton moldable?   Does Pratt have any semblance he belongs on a roster?  

If KAM puts players in Flores' stable, does this team have enough to carry a young midling -- and win the division?

Darnold will have the best weapons he has had as a starter.  What I am wondering is what is his confidence level?  He played terribly with no real support in NY. He played slightly better in Carolina, but they dumped him as soon as they could. He didn't play much in San Fran. So, where's his head?  

If he doesn't play well with JJ, Addison, TJ and now AJ (Aaron Jones) then he can't be reclaimed. If all we have is Mullens or Hall to play instead, the Vikes are in trouble. 

I think the season is riding on Darnold, whether there is a first round rookie QB or not.

[Ozzy]

28 minutes ago, ArcticNorseman said:

Not an April fool's joke, but if the Vikes are feeling confident on supporting cast after pick 23 is spent on Newton ot Murphy (assuming 11 nabbed Turner or Verse),  would this mean they're comfy with Darnold? Or, are they over-zealous a 4th rounder would fill the void?

Is Milton moldable?   Does Pratt have any semblance he belongs on a roster?  

If KAM puts players in Flores' stable, does this team have enough to carry a young midling -- and win the division?

For one that would make an odd front, Van Ginkel would not start unless they are a 4/3 and Metellus is on the bench or is the slot defender.  Also Jonah Williams and Bullard are both 3/4 DEs not 4/3 DEs or DTs really.  Same could be said for Tillery and Roy but they are more able to be a traditional 4/3 DT I feel.

 

DE J. Greenard/ Van Ginkel/ J. Williams
DT H. Phillips/ Tillery
DT J. Newton/ Bullard
DE Verse/ J. Ward/ P. Jones
OLB Cashman/ Asamoah
ILB Pace
OLB J. Metellus/  Van Ginkel
CB B. Murphy/ A. Evans
CB S. Griffin
SS Harrison Smith
FS Cam Bynum

 

 

I think they would rather get a DE or DT then draft a CB with that other 1st round if QB is out of the question.  That makes way more sense than getting two DL but who knows.  Also would make signing J. Williams, Tillery, Bullard and Ward kind of odd to go get rookies along with that.  But depth at DL is never a problem, just either the rookies would be sitting on the bench of the free agents some who they paid a decent amount for.  

 

I really doubt they pass on any QB in the 1st, but can they win with Darnold right now.  Of course, if Jones can stay healthy along with Jefferson, it would be a dangerous group that is for sure and the defense with just the free agents are improved but they do need either Griffin to be great again at CB or to pick a CB in the draft who can be great.

 

Of course Milton and Pratt are 4th round options, Milton not sure he ever gets the touch needed to play the position, even in a wide open offense at Tennessee he struggled passing at times.  But of course in passing drills he looks great but not always on the field.  That is an option though and guys later on in the draft.  But I would hope if QB is passed on DT, CB and OG are the needs address.  Edge not sure that is a huge need especially if they plan to have Van Ginkel opposite Greenard in more of a 3/4 base then just drop Van Ginkel to make it a 3/3/5 front and the DB down around the line would be either Harrison Smith or Metellus.  
 

[Ozzy]

2 minutes ago, Captain Relax said:

Darnold will have the best weapons he has had as a starter.  What I am wondering is what is his confidence level?  He played terribly with no real support in NY. He played slightly better in Carolina, but they dumped him as soon as they could. He didn't play much in San Fran. So, where's his head?  

If he doesn't play well with JJ, Addison, TJ and now AJ (Aaron Jones) then he can't be reclaimed. If all we have is Mullens or Hall to play instead, the Vikes are in trouble. 

I think the season is riding on Darnold, whether there is a first round rookie QB or not.

There is almost no chance Darnold gets out played by Mullens or Hall.  Absolutely no way those two would be better than Darnold unless Darnold gets hurt or something, that would be shocking to be honest with you.  If he is that awful no way they would have paid him $10 million for one year.  Byron Murphy is hands down the best CB on the roster and he does not even get $10 million a year.  

[GermanVike]

11 hours ago, swede700 said:

Unfortunately, as with Culpepper, that's not consistent and not sustainable. 

If it's sustainable for a year and it brings us the SB, that's all I need.

[swede700]

5 hours ago, GermanVike said:

If it's sustainable for a year and it brings us the SB, that's all I need.

That's what I've thought...but then I've heard others say that once you have one, you want more.  😂

[ArcticNorseman]

14 hours ago, Ozzy said:

For one that would make an odd front, Van Ginkel would not start unless they are a 4/3 and Metellus is on the bench or is the slot defender.  Also Jonah Williams and Bullard are both 3/4 DEs not 4/3 DEs or DTs really.  Same could be said for Tillery and Roy but they are more able to be a traditional 4/3 DT I feel.

 

DE J. Greenard/ Van Ginkel/ J. Williams
DT H. Phillips/ Tillery
DT J. Newton/ Bullard
DE Verse/ J. Ward/ P. Jones
OLB Cashman/ Asamoah
ILB Pace
OLB J. Metellus/  Van Ginkel
CB B. Murphy/ A. Evans
CB S. Griffin
SS Harrison Smith
FS Cam Bynum

 

 

I think they would rather get a DE or DT then draft a CB with that other 1st round if QB is out of the question.  That makes way more sense than getting two DL but who knows.  Also would make signing J. Williams, Tillery, Bullard and Ward kind of odd to go get rookies along with that.  But depth at DL is never a problem, just either the rookies would be sitting on the bench of the free agents some who they paid a decent amount for.  

 

I really doubt they pass on any QB in the 1st, but can they win with Darnold right now.  Of course, if Jones can stay healthy along with Jefferson, it would be a dangerous group that is for sure and the defense with just the free agents are improved but they do need either Griffin to be great again at CB or to pick a CB in the draft who can be great.

 

Of course Milton and Pratt are 4th round options, Milton not sure he ever gets the touch needed to play the position, even in a wide open offense at Tennessee he struggled passing at times.  But of course in passing drills he looks great but not always on the field.  That is an option though and guys later on in the draft.  But I would hope if QB is passed on DT, CB and OG are the needs address.  Edge not sure that is a huge need especially if they plan to have Van Ginkel opposite Greenard in more of a 3/4 base then just drop Van Ginkel to make it a 3/3/5 front and the DB down around the line would be either Harrison Smith or Metellus.  
 

There's a lot of oddness surrounding the D, for sure.  I don't see them switching to a 4-3 base (the traditional Vikes D), but Flores ran versions of 5-2-4, 4-3, 3-4, 3-3-5 and whatever combo we can come up with that equals 11.  That versatility was a major improvement.

If they would draft D in the 1st, I see some of the vets being cut.   Happens routinely.  

We've had 1st Round D-Line picks, but the last 30+ years, Doleman and K-Wil stick out as game wreckers.  I don't see those guys in the names listed.  

Maybe the D is set?  Whatever the Vikes choose to do tge next few weeks, I'll roll with it . . . Doesn't make my fingernails get any longer.

[vike daddy]

When O’Connell was speaking at the League Meetings last week in Florida, he made some interesting comments.

He made the point that history shows that a king’s ransom can be had for a top pick but Minnesota’s two first-round picks are something of “greater value.” When the 49ers traded up from 12 to two in 2021, they had to give up three firsts, but two of them were in the future. The Vikings have two in this current class is thought to give them an advantage since a team would know what they are getting.

Ben Volin of The Boston Globe shares this thought. He states, “O’Connell’s point is valid, but it also sounds like he is sending a message to the Patriots and Cardinals that two first-rounders in this year’s draft should be enough for the No. 3 or 4 pick.”

https://vikingswire.usatoday.com/2024/04/01/insider-believes-kevin-oconnell-sent-message-to-patriots-cardinals/?utm_campaign=trueanthem&utm_medium=trueanthem&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR2jFZdC6Q5IpMu6FaIJki05mWCzHQM4kab22sM92UKzJqjrq0GMyNOo7rU