Nikola Jokic ATG

[Mox]

Now that he's done exactly what a few of us said he was capable of doing, on a level rarely seen, I have a few questions...

Where does Joker rank all time for you as of today?

Where does this rank amongst the greatest individual postseasons in NBA history?

Where do you think he ends up on your all-time list when he retires?

P.S. Congrats to the Nuggets fans on this board!

[Mox]

For me, he's inside my top 25 All Time today. I haven't looked at it hard but he's a lock for that.

I'd put this as a top 5 postseason run ever and top 5-10 peak ever.

Depending on how much longer he wants to do it, especially with how well he played defensively this series, I'm not going to rule out anything for how high he can go on my list.

[redsoxsuck05]

42 minutes ago, Mox said:

For me, he's inside my top 25 All Time today. I haven't looked at it hard but he's a lock for that.

I'd put this as a top 5 postseason run ever and top 5-10 peak ever.

Depending on how much longer he wants to do it, especially with how well he played defensively this series, I'm not going to rule out anything for how high he can go on my list.

I think you can make an argument that he's the best player since LeBron, with an argument for Curry and Durant. He certainly has better fancy stats, but I feel like BPM is biased against guys who play a lot off-ball.

[Mox]

10 minutes ago, redsoxsuck05 said:

I think you can make an argument that he's the best player since LeBron, with an argument for Curry and Durant. He certainly has better fancy stats, but I feel like BPM is biased against guys who play a lot off-ball.

At their best I don't see any argument for Durant over Jokic. Career, sure, but I don't think that's going to last long either.

[Sllim Pickens]

He is top 25 right now probably top 20.  By the time his career is over he will be top 5.  Depending on how long he can play, he can move into top 3.  He needs more championships and continue his elite run for another 4 years and then slowly decline like Lebron.  Duncan fell off hard at 34 but still was productive for 5 more years.  If Jokic can do the same he will be top 15 in points, top 10 in rebounds and assists.  And probably will be 2nd or 1st in career triple doubles. 

[Mox]

41 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

He is top 25 right now probably top 20.  By the time his career is over he will be top 5.  Depending on how long he can play, he can move into top 3.  He needs more championships and continue his elite run for another 4 years and then slowly decline like Lebron.  Duncan fell off hard at 34 but still was productive for 5 more years.  If Jokic can do the same he will be top 15 in points, top 10 in rebounds and assists.  And probably will be 2nd or 1st in career triple doubles. 

Yeah, I mean by peaks he's already ahead of a ton of guys with better careers than him so it feels like only a matter of time.

[seminoles1]

He's around David Robinson right now for me. In the top 25, but just needs more of a paper resume to start catching up to the top 6-8 big men ever.

[Mox]

12 minutes ago, seminoles1 said:

He's around David Robinson right now for me. In the top 25, but just needs more of a paper resume to start catching up to the top 6-8 big men ever.

I'd take Jokic over guys like D-Rob or CP3 currently

[jrry32]

3 hours ago, Mox said:

For me, he's inside my top 25 All Time today. I haven't looked at it hard but he's a lock for that.

I'd put this as a top 5 postseason run ever and top 5-10 peak ever.

Depending on how much longer he wants to do it, especially with how well he played defensively this series, I'm not going to rule out anything for how high he can go on my list.

Still don't see it. Offensively, he was largely unstoppable. But I still see an average defender. He's simply not much of a rim protector and is too easily beaten by gifted slashers. And teams that can really shoot from the outside can exploit him on PnRs. He's not a liability, as he's capable of serviceable team defense due to his IQ and size. But the Nuggets try to hide him on D.

[Mox]

12 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

Still don't see it. Offensively, he was largely unstoppable. But I still see an average defender. He's simply not much of a rim protector and is too easily beaten by gifted slashers. And teams that can really shoot from the outside can exploit him on PnRs. He's not a liability, as he's capable of serviceable team defense due to his IQ and size. But the Nuggets try to hide him on D.

I mean he was pretty damn good those last three games of the series. He was contesting shots like crazy, flying all over the place (moreso game 5 than 3-4), deflecting balls left and right, always in the right spot, etc. Overall, I'd agree he's not some superior defender but he was undeniably a huge positive on that end the last three games of this series.

[seminoles1]

3 hours ago, Mox said:

I'd take Jokic over guys like D-Rob or CP3 currently

It's peak vs. longevity for guys like that. I think he's better than Robinson, but he hasn't done it quite long enough to separate himself for me. So same tier for now as Robinson, KG, Nowitzki, Barkley, and Karl Malone, but Jokic is clearly on his way to surpassing them.

I won't compare him to a perimeter player directly. That's too tough.

[Mox]

2 hours ago, seminoles1 said:

It's peak vs. longevity for guys like that. I think he's better than Robinson, but he hasn't done it quite long enough to separate himself for me. So same tier for now as Robinson, KG, Nowitzki, Barkley, and Karl Malone, but Jokic is clearly on his way to surpassing them.

I won't compare him to a perimeter player directly. That's too tough.

Robinson being unreliable as a postseason #1 is a big knock against him for me.

[lomaxgrUK]

11 hours ago, jrry32 said:

And teams that can really shoot from the outside can exploit him on PnRs

This argument always feels so dumb to me. There are many, many Centers that don't get labelled with this that are in the exact same boat as Jokic.

How many Centers can defend quality perimeter shooters in the high PnR? Embiid can't. Gobert can't. Turner can't. Adams can't. It's nonsense. 

When he tries (i.e in the playoffs), Jokic is absolutely, at very worst, an above average Defender. The reality is that he's a good Defender as @Mox has already explained.

Edited June 14, 2023 by lomaxgrUK

[jrry32]

5 hours ago, lomaxgrUK said:

This argument always feels so dumb to me. There are many, many Centers that don't get labelled with this that are in the exact same boat as Jokic.

How many Centers can defend quality perimeter shooters in the high PnR? Embiid can't. Gobert can't. Turner can't. Adams can't. It's nonsense. 

When he tries (i.e in the playoffs), Jokic is absolutely, at very worst, an above average Defender. The reality is that he's a good Defender as @Mox has already explained.

Your response is dumb. People are more forgiving of a Center who doesn't guard the perimeter well if they are good/great rim protectors. My point was that Jokic does neither well.

[lomaxgrUK]

23 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

Your response is dumb. People are more forgiving of a Center who doesn't guard the perimeter well if they are good/great rim protectors. My point was that Jokic does neither well.

Very clearly he does defend the rim well though, as proven throughout the playoffs. Does he do it the same as shot blockers? No. But he understands angles at an elite level and has the quickest hands of any big in the league.