Broncos Training Camp / Preseason Thread

[jolly red giant]

10 hours ago, 7DnBrnc53 said:

Kubiak wasn't that great here. That team was carried more by Wade's defense. Then, before that, Manning dragged Fox and Gase to the SB kicking and screaming (even though neither belonged in a SB), and McDaniels was a little child that was way in over his head. So, we would have to go back to Shanny in the 2000's, and even he was shaky at times. 

We've been through this before - Kubiak's performance as HC during the SB winning season was masterful - it was one of the best single season head-coaching performances ever.

Shannahan was a brilliant coach - he was not so great as a GM. It would have been interesting to see what he could have achieved with a good GM in the building.

Every coach has up and down years - none is consistently excellent. I would even say that about Belichick who has had one play-off game (and lost) since Brady left NE - and even if he was able to do it without Brady I still wouldn't want a pr*ck like him running the Broncos.

[jsthomp2007]

Kubiak was great.  If it weren't for his health problems, I doubt we would be in this playoff /losing season draught. It may have lasted a few years after Manning retired to find a new QB, but that would have been about it. We wouldn't have cycled through three different HCs, and I don't know how many QBs.  The year after Manning retired, the Broncos were 9-7 and a game away from making the playoffs with Simien as the QB. 

[broncosfan_101]

Already checking the Ben Powers contract to see what the dead cap situation looks like. He’s been AWFUL so far. 

[germ-x]

Getting back into things takes time and Payton hasn’t called plays in a few years, but he was just on camera, calling to go for it on 4th down with no play in mind.  He completely panicked running through his play sheet and just rattled a play off for it.  

[AKRNA]

1 hour ago, broncosfan_101 said:

Already checking the Ben Powers contract to see what the dead cap situation looks like. He’s been AWFUL so far. 

When we picked him up I watched some film of him. How Paton figured he was a $13 mil per year OG was kinda mindboggling. An overlarge fatboy with bad hands that can't move.

[broncosfan_101]

14 minutes ago, AKRNA said:

When we picked him up I watched some film of him. How Paton figured he was a $13 mil per year OG was kinda mindboggling. An overlarge fatboy with bad hands that can't move.

The problem was he was one of the 2-3 best IOL’s available this spring. With the benefit of much hindsight, the ideal play would’ve been to grab Dalton Risner for cheap just before camp. Somehow he’s still a free agent??

[AKRNA]

1 hour ago, broncosfan_101 said:

The problem was he was one of the 2-3 best IOL’s available this spring. With the benefit of much hindsight, the ideal play would’ve been to grab Dalton Risner for cheap just before camp. Somehow he’s still a free agent??

So, IMO the IOL is a very tough place to make a living. Two distinct qualities needed, 1st and most important, you've got to be strong and physical enough to play the position. Nastiness helps. Without that you're done before you start. Now you can start talking about foot speed, balance, technique, hand placement. Actually, I think UK used to coach OL. He's the guy to ask. 

Personally, if you don't have the first set you're a waste of time. Paton believes otherwise. He jettisoned Muti, definitely proven in the basics but shy on the rest and kept Wattenburg, a guy that may never be strong enough to play in the IOL.

We also have a center that doesn't really have either quality. 

So, at Baltimore Powers was between the best young center in a decade and Villenueva, a good journeyman at LT and a strong right side. 

Okay, I gotta shut up. Bottom line, a professional GM should have known better, nuff said.

 

Edited August 20, 2023 by AKRNA

[lomaxgrUK]

Some positives from one watch - Jaleel Mclaughlin is a roster lock. Nik Binotto, who I had no expectations of this year, looks explosive. I thought Quinn Meinerz and Cam Fleming held up well. Javontae got through unscathed. 

Some negatives - poor Jalen Virgil. That didn't look good. Ben Powers, man. That's so worrying. I'm no expert but he seems to two hand lunge so much in pass Pro. Interior DL still an issue for me. Lack of talent in there.

[lomaxgrUK]

1 minute ago, lomaxgrUK said:

Ben Powers, man. That's so worrying. I'm no expert but he seems to two hand lunge so much in pass Pro. 

 

This is exactly what I meant. "2 hands is 1 hand" - I like that phrase. 

[Dbrog24]

Just a few observations. Our offense continues to impress me with some designed runs for Russ and some quick cross routes. 

Unfortunately I'm seeing the same issue as last game with our defense. It's incredibly porous in the back, like a poormans vic defense. Just seems like Vance doesn't understand spacing except for on the line. For our division, don't be surprised if we get lit up in the passing game.

Our offense better bring it because I don't see a world where our defense is even close to last year level

[Cutler06]

1 hour ago, Dbrog24 said:

Just a few observations. Our offense continues to impress me with some designed runs for Russ and some quick cross routes. 

Unfortunately I'm seeing the same issue as last game with our defense. It's incredibly porous in the back, like a poormans vic defense. Just seems like Vance doesn't understand spacing except for on the line. For our division, don't be surprised if we get lit up in the passing game.

Our offense better bring it because I don't see a world where our defense is even close to last year level

I'm just not as doom-n-gloom on this defense. We have been playing without some of our KEY players. DJ Jones has been out with a concussion, Justin Simmons still nursing a leg injury, and even PS2 has seen limited action. Baron Browning will likely start on the PUP but we've still got good production from a limited Randy Gregory, Johnathon Cooper has made his presence felt, Bonitto is looking better and those last two are backups. We will have a stronger front 7 than we expected and when healthy, our secondary looks STOUT. 

Most of the porous you point at are players trying to make the team, many 3rd stringers IMO. While I really want our offense to contribute, the D is far from my biggest concern....the O-line is what has me concerned still.

 

Edited August 20, 2023 by Cutler06

[Broncofan]

10 hours ago, lomaxgrUK said:

Some positives from one watch - Jaleel Mclaughlin is a roster lock. Nik Binotto, who I had no expectations of this year, looks explosive. I thought Quinn Meinerz and Cam Fleming held up well. Javontae got through unscathed. 

Some negatives - poor Jalen Virgil. That didn't look good. Ben Powers, man. That's so worrying. I'm no expert but he seems to two hand lunge so much in pass Pro. Interior DL still an issue for me. Lack of talent in there.

Meniscus.   Ugh.   Better than ACL, but still.
 

 

 

The issue is whether or not he needs a full repair, which is 10-12 weeks, or he can get a minor repair (trim), which is usually 3-4 weeks.   

To compound this, Marquez Callaway has done nothing to stand out - so he looks like a familiarity-over-skill based signing (very little guaranteed money, so no biggie on that end).    I hope Brandon Johnson can come back soon, and Hinton too, because right now, after the top 3, it's pretty bleak.  

[Dbrog24]

5 hours ago, Cutler06 said:

I'm just not as doom-n-gloom on this defense. We have been playing without some of our KEY players. DJ Jones has been out with a concussion, Justin Simmons still nursing a leg injury, and even PS2 has seen limited action. 

Most of the porous you point at are players trying to make the team, many 3rd stringers IMO. While I really want our offense to contribute, the D is far from my biggest concern....the O-line is what has me concerned still.

 

Nah man I saw it with our starters both games unfortunately. The issue imo isn't the players, it's the schemes which is why I'm so worried. It's like vance wants to do a zone but leaves it TOO spread which just means he's leaving people wide open. It doesn't matter what player is there if they are too far away.

[AKRNA]

On 8/18/2023 at 1:26 PM, The Helicopter said:

Glad to hear. If only we had a roster to field...

You got me curious so I looked pretty close at the roster before we fired Vic and traded for Russ. Our roster losses have been huge. Combine that with 2 (top 10) #1 picks and 2 high #2's in addition to the #1 pick to get Sean and it's kind of stunning. Chubb, Fant, Harris would all start as would Dre Jones. Lock has been putting together a nice career in Seattle and would probably start here. He's playing really well. 

Anyway, I'm just glad the damage seems to have stopped with Sean's arrival. The reality is though that it will take years to get back any serious contention. I feel like i"m back in the 60's again, knowing we're absolutely outmatched in the NFL. So, I'm back to using the mantra that kept us Bronco's fans in the seats back then. "Just wait 'til next year". 

We also took quite a hit in the coaching staff and any continuity we may have had on the defense. VJ is not Vic or Ejiro, not even close.

I'm not trying to be such a downer but it'll be an interesting season. I'm not even concerned about our W/L, we're closer to being a contender for the #1 pick than we are the playoffs.

We'll get a great chance to start really identifying holes for Sean to start filling in, problems with depth, starters etc. If I'm Sean I'm looking for a solid solution to our IOL problems. This Forsyth out of Oregon interests me. I'd like to know if anyone/s watched him. I'm just solidly in the "cush can't be fixed camp" and without an above average OC your OL isn't going to be good.

Didn't really mean to write a book here but just be patient, look for improvement and a solid direction from Sean. Being a crappy team actually makes watching easier, no pressure, and much easier to maintain a sense of humor going through the growing pains.

 

[AKRNA]

6 hours ago, Dbrog24 said:

Nah man I saw it with our starters both games unfortunately. The issue imo isn't the players, it's the schemes which is why I'm so worried. It's like vance wants to do a zone but leaves it TOO spread which just means he's leaving people wide open. It doesn't matter what player is there if they are too far away.

You nailed it. I don't think anyone will ever confuse VJ with either Vic or Evero.