Four Packers 2nd and 3rd year players that make a big jump ?

[OneTwoSixFive]

So, here is a chance to get down in black and white who you think will make a big jump this year. Rookies are excluded for this, we are talking about guys in their second year or third year. You can pick only four guys max, to avoid just making a list with everyone on it.

 

My four would be:
Enagbare,
Toure,
Watson
Wyatt.

I wanted to find a spot for Quay Walker, but with only four spots available, he misses out. A nice surprise pick would have been Rhyan since he had a disaster last year, but again, only four picks. Perhaps for fun I'll allow one longshot player. I'll take:
Rasheed Walker.

Why no Tom on my list ? Well, in my eyes he was good enough as a rookie that there is no big jump to be made by him, he's already pretty good.

What are your thoughts ? Only some of the eligible players will make the jump - can you pick the ones that will ?

Edited June 23, 2023 by OneTwoSixFive

[MacReady]

Josiah Degaura.

[Brat&Beer]

DeGuara, Myers, Walker, Doubs.

 

 

 

[Old Guy]

On 6/24/2023 at 9:05 AM, Brat&Beer said:

DeGuara, Myers, Walker, Doubs.

 

 

 

Except he's in his 4th year. 

[Old Guy]

On 6/23/2023 at 5:30 PM, OneTwoSixFive said:

So, here is a chance to get down in black and white who you think will make a big jump this year. Rookies are excluded for this, we are talking about guys in their second year or third year. You can pick only four guys max, to avoid just making a list with everyone on it.

 

My four would be:
Enagbare,
Toure,
Watson
Wyatt.

I wanted to find a spot for Quay Walker, but with only four spots available, he misses out. A nice surprise pick would have been Rhyan since he had a disaster last year, but again, only four picks. Perhaps for fun I'll allow one longshot player. I'll take:
Rasheed Walker.

Why no Tom on my list ? Well, in my eyes he was good enough as a rookie that there is no big jump to be made by him, he's already pretty good.

What are your thoughts ? Only some of the eligible players will make the jump - can you pick the ones that will ?

I like your list, but if Tom is already good, then so was Watson.

I'm going to throw a hail mary for my first one, Sean Rhyan. The others, Wyatt, Q. Walker and Doubs. I think Doubs is going to go over 1000 yards this year. He's built up the most chemistry with Love. 

I do think if Enagbare makes a jump we are sitting pretty at EDGE. I also think it's entirely possible he does make a jump. 

[vegas492]

Wyatt needs to make the jump.  He is the one that we NEED to make the jump.  I feel like he has the talent to do so, but our DC may be the reason that he does not.

Engbare.  I feel like he is what he is.  Great EDGE4.  Good EDGE3.  Meh EDGE2.  I don't feel like he has enough upside to take a jump that we will see.

Watson.  He's already there, talent wise.  It just has to come together, and he needs 5-10 pounds of NFL muscle.  It's scary to think what he could become.  Doubtful that it happens this year.  I'm thinking it is year 4 where he really gets it.  He's just pretty behind the curve when it comes to running routes and reading defenses.  He's gonna be good to great with just physical talent, but when that brain catches up?  Oh my.  But it isn't happening this year.  Too early.  But he will be our big play threat that will open things up for others.

Toure.  To me, he's James Jones all over again.  And that is perfectly fine for him.  He will take a step forward this year, but it will be overshadowed by Doubs (who will take a bigger step forward) and Watson, because Watson is going to be a highlight reel with longer plays.

 

The one that really needs to step up is Myers at center and Wyatt on the DL.  

Then you throw in Stokes, he's a must to take a step forward.  Then you gotta put Tom in there.  Yeah, he's already good, but if he got some power and strength in those legs, he's gotta get experience to take over LT for Bakh next year or later this year at the trade deadline.

And now I'm rambling.  Apologies.  We have a whole roster of guys that need to take the next steps in their careers.

[ThatJerkDave]

If you look at both Devonte Wyatt and Christian Watson's usages at the end of the 2022 season, both of them picked up their snap count a lot.  I expect that both will see that increased load as second year players, and produce accordingly.  Up until week 15, Wyatt's largest snap count, and percentage of defensive snaps was against the Eagles, with 20 snaps and 25%.  The final three games of the season, his lowest usage was against Miami with 24 snaps and 48%.  He also sees an increase of ST snaps over those last three games.  Watson had his coming out party against Dallas in week 10.  Since then, he only had two games with less than 80% of offensive snaps played, and he still played in 25 and 38 snaps in those games.  Not surprisingly, 86% of Watson's production comes after week 10.  More opportunities for both of these guys will do them wonders.  Watson was dinged up in camp, and then Rodgers was dinged up in the middle of the season, can account for his slower start.  Wyatt was competing for playing time with Dean Lowry and Jarran Reed, who are pretty good NFL players, and TJ Slaton earned his PT last year as well.  

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WyatDe00/gamelog/2022/

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WatsCh00/gamelog/2022/

I think that Rasheed Walker is going to turn some heads once preseason gets underway.  He was really good in the preseason game 3 last year, after missing a lot of practice.  We have all these "monster" OL.  Aside from Caleb Jones, who is a real monster, Walker is heavier than Telfort, Nijman, and Tenuta, while only being like an inch shorter.  Will he be a starter? No, probably not this season.  But I think he will be a pretty safe roster projection, and I foresee future bookends of Tom and Walker in a year or two.

Long story short, my 4 are: Devonte Wyatt, Christian Watson, Zach Tom, and Rasheed Walker.

[Brat&Beer]

4 hours ago, Old Guy said:

Except he's in his 4th year. 

Myers, Doubs, Q. Walker, R. Walker.

[craig]

This is hard!  It's also unfair:  There are going to be MORE THAN 4 guys who are going to jump!  :):).  And *IF* we're going to have a really successful season, we're going to need more than 4 guys to break out.  

Prediction 4:  Stokes, Myers, Tom, Doubs. 

• None of those four guys both played/started a lot at a spot, AND played well at a spot.  
• It may be more hope than expectation.  But *IF* both Myers and Tom hypothetically did step up significantly as starters, the o-line could then end up being quite good.   Offense has much higher ceiling if the o-line is good.  Not sure whether that's more hope than expectation, though, for either guy to be above-average?  
• Stokes emerging as an asset player in the secondary would be huge.  He missed a bunch, and wasn't good before the injury.  I'm kinda expecting a big jump from him.  
• Doubs will surely get more opportunity.   Both need him and expect him to be better.   

Wyatt:  We need a big jump, but I'm not really expecting it?  He'll get a lot of snaps, but I'm not sure I see the talent or the brains to be an asset?  Fear he'll be a liability in run, nothing special in pass?  I don't think that's Barry; I think Wyatt probably just isn't that good or smart.  That's why the coaches didn't think he was good enough to win snaps from Lowry.  

Watson already jumped out.  Doesn't need to "jump" higher, but needs to sustain and show durability/consistency.  

Quay already played a lot, so I didn't include him.  But I think he *might* have a chance to jump in terms of impact and reputation?  He made a lot of mistakes, often diagnostically tardy.  That may stay true.  But maybe mistakes will decline, diagnosis will get quicker and more accurate; and maybe he'll make more big plays?  Maybe become more of a weapon in blitz and stunt?  If I'm Goff or Cousins, I don't want Quay coming through the middle un-blocked, that's for sure.  Maybe I should replace Myers with Quay?  

I'm as hopeful for Toure as the next guy.  Vegas, you mentioned James Jones, and that's possible, to emerge as a capable 3rd WR who takes the opportunities that come his way.  I'm just not sure how many snaps or targets a time-share WR3 will get?  MLF may not play lots of 3WR, he may split those between Toure and Reed, and he may not target either one often.  Toure might be Jones, or more Ruvell Martin?    

I don't *expect* Slaton to jump much, I think he's probably too slow.  But *IF* Slaton could jump, that could make a difference?  He's going to get a lot of early-down snaps, *if* he could help the defense set up more "and-long" downs, that could help a lot.  Hard to necessarily notice a jump from a big like that, though?  

 

[Sandy]

Might edit, but for now:

Doubs, Wyatt, Quay, Two-Pump.

This is viewing Tom and Watson as having already done enough to have graduated from consideration.

Doubs - I think he becomes a legit top 20 receiver in this league. 

Wyatt - he'll be given every opportunity for playing time. I expect him to excel.

Quay - this year it should slow down for him. 

TP - at some point someone on our o-line will get hurt and shift things around. I believe Two-Pump wins the #7 lineman spot in TC and will play a key role in the second half of the season, making it even more clear that we can safely move on from Bakh next year.

[vegas492]

K.  Here's who needs to take the next steps in order for us to be good this year.

1)  Jordan Love.  The.  Most.  Important.  One.  We all know it.  We've seen him stink it up, we've seen him look average and we've seen him look very good.  Let's see what the kid can do.  

2)  Stokes.  Corner is a very premium position.  He flashed high end ability as a rook, then didn't look so good last year.  He has everything needed to be an elite corner.  Douglas ain't getting younger and we need a running mate for JA.

3)  Myers.  Centers are the leaders on the OL.  You win games and lose games in the trenches.  He was drafted high enough to where he should be a "plus" every time we play.  But it hasn't been that way yet.  This is the year he should own that OL as their leader and step up his play.  If he doesn't?  We will draft another center to take his spot.  It is time.

4)  Doubs.  I only put him here because Gary is injured, or Gary would be on this list.  But, Doubs had a great camp last year.  Got dinged, and production went down.  When he returned, he looked to be fighting himself on the field.  Like he was thinking too much.  Watson is established as the big play threat and the guy that defenses will want to contain.  Doubs needs to feast opposite of him.  He has the size, physicality and the strength to do so.  And...there are the reports that he has a great rapport with Love.  If I were in a fantasy league, PPR, I'm letting someone else spend a high pick on Watson and I'm taking Doubs 2 or 3 rounds later and getting better value.

Honorable Mention:  Gary, if he weren't injured, he'd be on here.  And I know Stokes was, but Gary's injury was later in the year, so I expect a lot of this year to be him working back into form.  Savage.  I've more or less lost faith in him.  Quay is going to be fine and he's an ILB next to Campbell, minimal impact.  Wyatt.  I have very little faith that our DC will let Wyatt do Wyatt things or he'd be on here.  Dillon.  Step up already, big guy, earn that next deal.  Carlson.  Laugh all you want, many games come down to a pressure filled field goal.  No clue is this kid has ice in his veins yet.  LaFleur himself.  Not sure if he won games, or if Rodgers won games for him.

We have such a young roster that even the rookies need to step up.  I have a hunch that LVN is going to be the best EDGE rusher in this class and a flat out weapon for us.  And it won't take long to see that.

[craig]

Like your perspective Vegas.  Predicting/expecting who will step up, that's different from evaluating which guys *need* to step up in order to be good.  

Just as a Q:  "Wyatt.  I have very little faith that our DC will let Wyatt do Wyatt things or he'd be on here. "  What would "Wyatt" things be, if he were in a different system or was allowed?  Is run-D supposed to be his strength?  Pass?  If the latter, why didn't he ever sack anybody at Georgia, when he was a couple of years older than the rest of Georgia's front 7?  I'm just not sure what his game is supposed to be?  

On Quay, I think the Packers run defense has to be better.  I don't expect it to be short-yardage stuffing.  But early-down run-defense sets up 3rd down opportunities.  I'd like to see the d-front be a lot tougher and more disruptive on early downs, so that Quay is stuffing guys for 1-2 yards instead of 5.  Need more good 3rd-down opportunities to force punts.  I think he could be seeing and filling holes more quickly and making an improved impact, even if his tackle-volume stats don't change much.  

Edited June 26, 2023 by craig

[squire12]

4 hours ago, vegas492 said:

 

3)  Myers.  Centers are the leaders on the OL.  You win games and lose games in the trenches.  He was drafted high enough to where he should be a "plus" every time we play.  But it hasn't been that way yet.  This is the year he should own that OL as their leader and step up his play.  If he doesn't?  We will draft another center to take his spot.  It is time

Really interested to see Meyers without Rodgers checking out of the initial playcall, late playclock adjustment/ line calls, snapping the ball with more than 3 seconds on the playclock, having a healthy Jenkins at LG

[VegasDan]

Wyatt - I base this on how he looked early compared how he looked at the end of the season. He went from riding the pine, to being solid, and solid with a few impact plays. His trajectory is that he will be above average with a few impact plays per game.

Doubs - he has played more with Love than any other WR on the roster. That connection familiarity will result in being the go-to guy. He may not have the best stats on the team, I think he will lead the team in receptions.

Love - he looked good last season. He will take another step and be really good.  It's not necessarily the skills and knowledge, but he will play within the system and be more effective.

Myers or Walker are next. I'm going with Myers as walker looked impressive at times. Myers has looked mostly below average. His playing really good this next season will be a much bigger jump than Quay from above average to very good.

My Longshot is Savage. Easy to give up on him and most fans probably have. But our need is huge a safety and hopefully he pulls himself together.

[vegas492]

14 hours ago, craig said:

Like your perspective Vegas.  Predicting/expecting who will step up, that's different from evaluating which guys *need* to step up in order to be good.  

Just as a Q:  "Wyatt.  I have very little faith that our DC will let Wyatt do Wyatt things or he'd be on here. "  What would "Wyatt" things be, if he were in a different system or was allowed?  Is run-D supposed to be his strength?  Pass?  If the latter, why didn't he ever sack anybody at Georgia, when he was a couple of years older than the rest of Georgia's front 7?  I'm just not sure what his game is supposed to be?  

On Quay, I think the Packers run defense has to be better.  I don't expect it to be short-yardage stuffing.  But early-down run-defense sets up 3rd down opportunities.  I'd like to see the d-front be a lot tougher and more disruptive on early downs, so that Quay is stuffing guys for 1-2 yards instead of 5.  Need more good 3rd-down opportunities to force punts.  I think he could be seeing and filling holes more quickly and making an improved impact, even if his tackle-volume stats don't change much.  

Quay is a run and hit linebacker.  To me, he's not a thinker.  He's a reactor.  Let Campbell think.  Let him set the defense so all Quay as to do is read his keys and fly to the ball.  He should be very good at that.   

Which brings me to Wyatt.  His strength is quickness.  And it's not just feet, it is also hands.  He can excel if we have 3 guys with their hands in the dirt.  He should not be a space eater or two gapper.  He should be a penetrating DL.  I'd try hard to not play him too often on run sets.  I'd want to keep him as fresh as I can for pass rush sets.

And the two together?  I feel that Quay will be better with three guys with their hands down in the dirt in front of him.  Keep him cleaner.  

And I have very little faith that our DC will allow for those things.  I hope I'm wrong about that, because we did run some nice 3 IDL sets last year.  Towards the end of last year.