Eagles 2023 Training Camp Thread: It Begins

[AZ_Eaglesfan]

2 hours ago, Broadway Joe said:

I think time has shown that 2017 was more of a master class in coaching than in GM, while 2022 was a masterclass in GMing.  

When you look back that roster wasn't that talented, you had players like Nick Foles, Corey Clement, Nigel Bradham, Patrick Robinson playing well above their talent. Whatever they did to transform Nick into that player for that stretch is all the coaching staff.

And yes, they don't win the SB as you said, Howie is important, but he was not the main reason for that championship despite him thinking that. 2022 in the other hand...

It was both. That team was riddled with injuries and still had a ton of talent. It was a perfect storm that will likely not be replicated for many, many years. From top to bottom everyone killed it that year.

[Nabbs4u]

3 hours ago, Broadway Joe said:

I think time has shown that 2017 was more of a master class in coaching than in GM, while 2022 was a masterclass in GMing.  

When you look back that roster wasn't that talented, you had players like Nick Foles, Corey Clement, Nigel Bradham, Patrick Robinson playing well above their talent. Whatever they did to transform Nick into that player for that stretch is all the coaching staff.

And yes, they don't win the SB as you said, Howie is important, but he was not the main reason for that championship despite him thinking that. 2022 in the other hand...

You just named 4 of the most important pieces to our SB Victory? Doug doesn't even have the opportunity to "Coach" without those moves?

Not to mention, Alston Jeffrey, Jay Ajayi, Chris Long, Torrey Smith, resigned Burton, Wise,Goode,Watkins  ?

There is no SB without that offseason without Howie, Period!

Edited August 30, 2023 by Nabbs4u

[UndyTaker]

Doug was by far the most important piece to us winning a superbowl in 2017, as far as staff members go. Period.

 

[Danger]

11 hours ago, UndyTaker said:

Doug was by far the most important piece to us winning a superbowl in 2017, as far as staff members go. Period.

 

Howie. 

[EaglesFlySBChampsHigh]

13 hours ago, Nabbs4u said:

You just named 4 of the most important pieces to our SB Victory? Doug doesn't even have the opportunity to "Coach" without those moves?

Not to mention, Alston Jeffrey, Jay Ajayi, Chris Long, Torrey Smith, resigned Burton, Wise,Goode,Watkins  ?

There is no SB without that offseason without Howie, Period!

 

28 minutes ago, Danger said:

Howie. 

100% Howie. 

[Shalodeep]

I honestly think 2017 doesn't happen without Howie and Dougie P. I think Doug will be considered one of the best coaches in the league in the next couple years down in Jacksonville while Howie is showing how to manipulate cap and acquire talent at a top tier level. Either way, glad to get the first out the way.

[Jroc04]

Assembling that team for the splash that we had was an absolute master stroke by Howie. Doug was very important, the players were very important. But Howie put it together. I don’t think anyone can unequivocally say, <insert name> is more important than anyone else. It’s like saying what’s more important in a cars performance; the mechanic, the designer, the parts or the fuel. Nothing works the same without the other. 

[Broadway Joe]

14 hours ago, Nabbs4u said:

You just named 4 of the most important pieces to our SB Victory? Doug doesn't even have the opportunity to "Coach" without those moves?

Not to mention, Alston Jeffrey, Jay Ajayi, Chris Long, Torrey Smith, resigned Burton, Wise,Goode,Watkins  ?

There is no SB without that offseason without Howie, Period!

There is not, for sure. As much as there is not SB without Carson Wentz and even Andy Reid and Chip Kelly. There is no SB without a strip sack, maybe even without Keanu Neal

Why didn't we win all the other years we had more talent then?

No one is saying he is not important, just not the main reason. But if you want to be reductive I'll say it in your style "There is no SB without Doug, Period!"

15 hours ago, AZ_Eaglesfan said:

It was both. That team was riddled with injuries and still had a ton of talent. It was a perfect storm that will likely not be replicated for many, many years. From top to bottom everyone killed it that year.

Yes the team had a lot of injuries, and those same players that filled in for the injured ones like Nick, Big V, Bradham/Kendricks (whoever filled for Hicks), and guys like Corey, weren't able to replicate the level of play they had in 2017 which speaks to the coaching. The team wasn't that talent when you look back. 

 

 

Edited August 31, 2023 by Broadway Joe

[Danger]

39 minutes ago, Shalodeep said:

I honestly think 2017 doesn't happen without Howie and Dougie P. I think Doug will be considered one of the best coaches in the league in the next couple years down in Jacksonville while Howie is showing how to manipulate cap and acquire talent at a top tier level. Either way, glad to get the first out the way.

The thing more than anything that is crazy to me about Doug. I don't feel like X's and O's are his issue, but like he just always struggled to evaluate talent. He had a huge say in who we drafted here, and our drafting during his tenure was pretty piss poor. Either that or he struggled to develop the talent. And then I think sometimes once he has success he can get... complacent when it comes to designing his general schemes. He thinks "oh this works" and then defenses adjust and he doesn't in turn adjust again. 

[Broadway Joe]

36 minutes ago, Danger said:

The thing more than anything that is crazy to me about Doug. I don't feel like X's and O's are his issue, but like he just always struggled to evaluate talent. He had a huge say in who we drafted here, and our drafting during his tenure was pretty piss poor. Either that or he struggled to develop the talent. And then I think sometimes once he has success he can get... complacent when it comes to designing his general schemes. He thinks "oh this works" and then defenses adjust and he doesn't in turn adjust again. 

He definitely has a problem with talent developing, it was evidenced by the handling of JJAW on his rookie year, benching Fulgham when Alshon came back, Carson's regression the moment DeFilippo left. And he had no connections in the league, he couldn't replace his staff with competent people. He was a better schemer than people gave him credit for, though. 

[Shalodeep]

41 minutes ago, Danger said:

The thing more than anything that is crazy to me about Doug. I don't feel like X's and O's are his issue, but like he just always struggled to evaluate talent. He had a huge say in who we drafted here, and our drafting during his tenure was pretty piss poor. Either that or he struggled to develop the talent. And then I think sometimes once he has success he can get... complacent when it comes to designing his general schemes. He thinks "oh this works" and then defenses adjust and he doesn't in turn adjust again. 

And at one point Howie stuck to being "the smartest guy in the room" and drafted like crap. People develop. Having Trevor Lawrence and Etienne will definitely help though. I didn't worry about his roster talent, just his odd loyalties at coordinators. His scheme works, his teams love him, and he is easy to like. He definitely is a coach that will always find work I believe, and will constantly be in the playoffs. 

[Shalodeep]

5 minutes ago, Broadway Joe said:

He definitely has a problem with talent developing, it was evidenced by the handling of JJAW on his rookie year, benching Fulgham when Alshon came back, Carson's regression the moment DeFilippo left. And he had no connections in the league, he couldn't replace his staff with competent people. He was a better schemer than people gave him credit for, though. 

Seems more like a loyalty issue than development. Jjaw was a Howie draft, fulgham can't find a team, and Carson has bombed out of the league as well. He has success so coaching for him should be a nice spot for anyone on the rise, but his love for certain guys prevents him from seeing what's out there. The alshon thing was Howie and that contract. Its come out by nick that Howie has his hands in starters 

[Danger]

9 minutes ago, Shalodeep said:

And at one point Howie stuck to being "the smartest guy in the room" and drafted like crap. People develop. Having Trevor Lawrence and Etienne will definitely help though. I didn't worry about his roster talent, just his odd loyalties at coordinators. His scheme works, his teams love him, and he is easy to like. He definitely is a coach that will always find work I believe, and will constantly be in the playoffs. 

It doesn't take a genius to see that the coaching staff had an IMMENSE say in who we draft in this org. Just beyond success/failure, you can see stark differences in tendencies between the Andy -> Chip -> Doug -> Sirianni eras.

[Jays3]

I think Doug was just always “too nice”. People make mistakes and it’s the head coaches job to get on that persons case if something doesn’t go as planned. Doug is the kinda guy that is like “oh don’t worry about it, I got your back”. But that provides no accountability. Without accountability you can’t improve. This “nice guy attitude” effected all aspects of the organization from player development, coaching, the draft etc. when guys like JJAW need a kick in the ***, instead he goes to war for them pleading with howie and Lurie not to get rid of them, because he likes the person that they are. Same goes to the coaches, he never wanted to cut the dead weight.

 

coaching a lot of times is like parenting. You want to be the cool guy and have everyone like you, but there comes a time when you need to discipline and be “the bad guy”. Doug is incapable of being “the bad guy” when he needs to. This is an area that I think nick sirianni is way better than Doug and it’s not even close.

[EaglesPeteC]

We win yet?