Future Needs now Evident?

[Magnus-Viktor]

In reality, depending on what the roster looks like after this season, I might take one of those WRs I mentioned in my first post there instead of one of the CBs.  I'd rather have the CBs over a #3 WR, but as my last post illustrated, if you lose Brown or JuJu, the O is pretty much dead in the water due to the lack of depth at WR.  Equanimeous St. Brown would be a great outside WR to compliment Brown and JuJu, if he's around in 2 (which I doubt).  He's really skinny though so maybe he'd be too injury prone.  Idk.  Godwin might be another Antonio Brown.  So have to wait and see where those guys are projected come draft day.  Or maybe it's like this year where I thought guys like Hansen and Switzer were value picks in the mid to late rounds.  

[JLambert58]

32 minutes ago, Magnus-Viktor said:

I know he can, but that was also a different system.  I think Brown should be able to keep playing at a high level for a few more years at least, but you have to plan for a worst case scenario to an extent as well.  Just like this offseason when I put 2 or 3 WRs in my mocks for the Steelers because I had zero faith in any WR except Brown (I had something like Kupp or Godwin in 2-3, Chad Hansen in 4-5, and Ryan Switzer in 6-7, so not all premium picks, but I definitely wanted to get a few WRs including at least one in the 1st 3 rounds).  I was planning ahead for the instance where Bryant isn't playing well or isn't even available at all.....that came to fruition with him not playing well and pouting and asking for trades.  So that rookie and Brown are the only quality receivers they have.  One injury, and you're down to only 1.  Or suspension.  Now that JuJu is suspended, you're down to just Brown.  Not good.  Bryant is averaging something like 3 catches and 33 yards a game.  Eli Rogers has done basically nothing.  Bottom line:  the Steelers are overly reliant on just Brown and JuJu.  So that's why WR is a need.  Still. 

 

Plus Jerry Rice was 6'2" when CBs were 5'10".  Brown is 5'10" when CBs are 6'2".  That makes a difference.  

I compared Brown to Rice because they are/were exceptional route runners that don't exclusively rely on speed to be effective.  

Agree, we cannot rest on who we have, especially with regard to Bryant.  Hoping he can have one more good year with us and then, who knows... JuJu looks like the second coming of Hines Ward.  Very excited about his future, but we definitely need quality (#3), 4, 5 moving forward.   Eli R has been very disappointing.  Don't know if he is the answer.  Like those guys you mentioned from last year's draft.  Maybe we find a guy in rd 3-4 to fit the bill. 

[Magnus-Viktor]

50 minutes ago, JLambert58 said:

I compared Brown to Rice because they are/were exceptional route runners that don't exclusively rely on speed to be effective.  

Agree, we cannot rest on who we have, especially with regard to Bryant.  Hoping he can have one more good year with us and then, who knows... JuJu looks like the second coming of Hines Ward.  Very excited about his future, but we definitely need quality (#3), 4, 5 moving forward.   Eli R has been very disappointing.  Don't know if he is the answer.  Like those guys you mentioned from last year's draft.  Maybe we find a guy in rd 3-4 to fit the bill. 

Yeah I understand your comparison.  I just think that Rice was more of a guy who got open on crossing routes and wasn't nearly as quick in his cuts.  Brown will be good even if he slows down due to hands and route accuracy, but he won't be as elite if his elite quickness is gone or diminished. 

As for JuJu, I think we need to hope for a lot better than Hines Ward.  Ward played in a different era when his blocking was more legal and valuable.  JuJu has the potential to be a lot better, since he's bigger and faster.  I'm pretty excited about his future.  More than I ever was for Ward.  I appreciated Ward moving the chains, but he wasn't very dynamic.  

Eli has been a big disappointment, but I've also I've never thought he was anything more than just a guy. 

DHB is a gunner and not really a WR.  

Who else is even on the roster?  Hunter?  He isn't doing much either....3 for 18 and only played in 4 games.  I can't think of anyone else.  

Hunter is going to be a FA.  DHB = FA after '18.  Eli is a RFA after this season.  It's a good thing everyone else is cheap since Antonio is SOOOO expensive now!  ~18, 19, 15 and 16 mill per season over the next 4 years.  

[JLambert58]

1 hour ago, Magnus-Viktor said:

As for JuJu, I think we need to hope for a lot better than Hines Ward.  Ward played in a different era when his blocking was more legal and valuable.  JuJu has the potential to be a lot better, since he's bigger and faster.  I'm pretty excited about his future.  More than I ever was for Ward.  I appreciated Ward moving the chains, but he wasn't very dynamic.  

Ward got the job done when we needed him to.  Ward WAS dynamic, more like TE dynamic, but very effective at what he did.  (not to mention that smile)  He wasn't a Ferrari, but was Ford F150 that goes to 300,000 miles.     Agree JuJu could be even better, but let's not get ahead of ourselves.  

[Magnus-Viktor]

1 hour ago, JLambert58 said:

Ward got the job done when we needed him to.  Ward WAS dynamic, more like TE dynamic, but very effective at what he did.  (not to mention that smile)  He wasn't a Ferrari, but was Ford F150 that goes to 300,000 miles.     Agree JuJu could be even better, but let's not get ahead of ourselves.  

That's exactly right.  He was a chain mover like an old school TE that could block and do some moderate receiving (not the game breaking 4.4 speed type guy at TE I mean).  More of a Heath Miller type.  I wouldn't call that dynamic though, for a WR.  I consider a dynamic WR to be the Randy Moss type, or Odell Beckham, or even Antonio Brown.  JuJu will never be in that class though.  

[SlevinKelevra]

if we keep Bell around,  WR continues to not be a high priority need for a year or two.

 

assuming* (of course that's what it is) there's decent talent at these positions,  our 1st 3 should be   FS, ILB, and CB

 

 

[Magnus-Viktor]

22 minutes ago, SlevinKelevra said:

if we keep Bell around,  WR continues to not be a high priority need for a year or two.

 

assuming* (of course that's what it is) there's decent talent at these positions,  our 1st 3 should be   FS, ILB, and CB

 

 

I'd basically agree with that.  I do indeed rate those 3 positions higher needs than WR.  But if we lost Brown or JuJu the crap would hit the fan at WR.  Big time.  Bell or no Bell.  

I would say though, that if there is a stud WR available, and just average quality talent at those other positions, I'd take the stud WR instead.  But only if he's really special.  If I had the option of taking a CB that was an 8, vs a WR that was a 9, I might take the CB.  But if that WR was a 10 or the CB was a 7 (and WR a 9), I'd take the WR instead.  

[warfelg]

39 minutes ago, SlevinKelevra said:

if we keep Bell around,  WR continues to not be a high priority need for a year or two.

 

assuming* (of course that's what it is) there's decent talent at these positions,  our 1st 3 should be   FS, ILB, and CB

 

 

Not to pick on you but why is we keep Bell around is WR not a high priority?  Does it suddenly become on if Bell walks?  More than RB?

 

The WR position more hinges on Bryant.  If Bryant balls out starting Sunday I would not hesitate to trade him this offseason for as much as possible, draft a 3-5th round slot WR who can return (Damn I wanted Ryan Switzer or Tarik Cohen this past draft), and sign a one trick pony this offseason.

[Magnus-Viktor]

41 minutes ago, warfelg said:

Not to pick on you but why is we keep Bell around is WR not a high priority?  Does it suddenly become on if Bell walks?  More than RB?

 

The WR position more hinges on Bryant.  If Bryant balls out starting Sunday I would not hesitate to trade him this offseason for as much as possible, draft a 3-5th round slot WR who can return (Damn I wanted Ryan Switzer or Tarik Cohen this past draft), and sign a one trick pony this offseason.

Because Bell is utilized so much in the passing game.  If he is not out there to catch passes, you need more WRs to do it.  Or a receiving TE.  I see what you're saying about RB being bumped up as a need if he leaves too.  That's the problem with a guy like Bell.  You pay him like a RB AND a WR, if you pay him what he's asking, so he does fill 2 roles to an extent.  But if you lose him, then you are losing the receiving weapon at RB plus a big part of your rushing attack as well.  I like Conner as a runner.  I'm not too sure about his receiving though.  I wanted Christian McCaffrey last year to pair with a back like Conner if we lose Bell.  Bell is awesome, but he's also not reliable and over priced.  I wanted to trade him and draft McCaffrey if he was available.  The Vikings have a pretty nice tandem going in Murray and McKinnon.  That would've been essentially what McCaffrey and Conner would've been.  You can do it a lot cheaper than paying Bell a fortune.  

[warfelg]

3 hours ago, Magnus-Viktor said:

Because Bell is utilized so much in the passing game.  If he is not out there to catch passes, you need more WRs to do it.  Or a receiving TE.  I see what you're saying about RB being bumped up as a need if he leaves too.  That's the problem with a guy like Bell.  You pay him like a RB AND a WR, if you pay him what he's asking, so he does fill 2 roles to an extent.  But if you lose him, then you are losing the receiving weapon at RB plus a big part of your rushing attack as well.  I like Conner as a runner.  I'm not too sure about his receiving though.  I wanted Christian McCaffrey last year to pair with a back like Conner if we lose Bell.  Bell is awesome, but he's also not reliable and over priced.  I wanted to trade him and draft McCaffrey if he was available.  The Vikings have a pretty nice tandem going in Murray and McKinnon.  That would've been essentially what McCaffrey and Conner would've been.  You can do it a lot cheaper than paying Bell a fortune.  

Ehhh.....Bell has been more of a safety valve than "star WR" type.  Yes we line him out wide at times, but we aren't using him like a WR all the time out there.  He's more of a "diversion" than an option unless he gets a stupid matchup.

Bell's catches (I actually looked back at this) are the same as what our RB's used to do, plus 75% of Heath Millers production.

So I don't think we need more WR's or anything like that.  I think that Jesse James will get more touches, and the replacement at RB will be used in a committee at RB with Connor (who BTW actually has good hands) to replicate what Bell did.

I can't help but think of that playoff game in Denver when Brown was out.  All the sudden so many guys got involved in the game at WR because Ben was forced to spread the ball around a bit more.  I think that if Bell left, we could see a similar effect to where it forces Ben to get other guys involved more in the game.

I still think that we could use a replacement SLOT WR, because I never believed in Eli Rogers, but if Brown, Smith-Schuster, and Bryant are all back I'm not putting it that high if Bell doesn't return.  RB would for sure be much more pressing at that point.

[Magnus-Viktor]

5 hours ago, warfelg said:

Ehhh.....Bell has been more of a safety valve than "star WR" type.  Yes we line him out wide at times, but we aren't using him like a WR all the time out there.  He's more of a "diversion" than an option unless he gets a stupid matchup.

Bell's catches (I actually looked back at this) are the same as what our RB's used to do, plus 75% of Heath Millers production.

So I don't think we need more WR's or anything like that.  I think that Jesse James will get more touches, and the replacement at RB will be used in a committee at RB with Connor (who BTW actually has good hands) to replicate what Bell did.

I can't help but think of that playoff game in Denver when Brown was out.  All the sudden so many guys got involved in the game at WR because Ben was forced to spread the ball around a bit more.  I think that if Bell left, we could see a similar effect to where it forces Ben to get other guys involved more in the game.

I still think that we could use a replacement SLOT WR, because I never believed in Eli Rogers, but if Brown, Smith-Schuster, and Bryant are all back I'm not putting it that high if Bell doesn't return.  RB would for sure be much more pressing at that point.

 

I know he isn't utilized as a WR as much as he could be, but he is capable of going out wide and running wheel routes which not that many RBs can do.  The main thing about Bell is he blocks and then leaks out.  It gives the D time to get downfield leaving more wide open space for YAC for Bell.  His blocking would be the most missed, and the fact that you can ride him all game long in any situation.  That's what makes him elite to me.  The fact he's elite at every facet.  Blocking, running, receiving, out of the gun, QB under center, etc.  There's no handcuffing your O with play calling and schemes because he can do it all.  

As for replacing him, it just depends on what type of shift they wanted to do philosophically.  Do you want to pair Conner with a McCaffrey type and rotate them?  Do you want to go 3-4 wide more often?  Do you want 2 TEs?  Are your TEs blockers or receivers?  You know the entire O would shift if they didn't have a back capable of doing everything.  

And yes, Bell's catches equating to the RBs plus 75% of Heath sound about right.  That's pretty important, since we no longer have that chain mover TE like Heath.