Tank & Ty’s Tank for Caleb Thread

[topwop1]

30 minutes ago, Epyon said:

As much as I personally, would also fire Poles, I feel like the general consensus is that he's the one still here next year picking the new coaching staff and draft picks.

The thing with Poles is he has no ties to Fields and before he was hired he apparently told Bears ownership that this team lacked blue chip talent and that his goal was to build that up through the draft

Well let's just say we do end up with two top-5 picks and #1 overall, which is looking pretty good at this point, people really think he's not going to get a chance to select those picks given he instrumented the trade that landed one of those picks and the fact that Fields was never his pick at QB?

Call me a little skeptical he'll be fired...not that there aren't reasons that  the case can be made for doing so...but he's a young GM who's still learning on the fly in the midst of a rebuild. Bears had to expect this wasn't going to be a quick fix. He's not going to be perfect in every move that he makes

At least it sounds like he's willing to move on quickly from his mistakes..now with the news that Claypool is on the trade block. Still a horrible trade at the end of the day ...but I understood the logic behind it at the time 

[beardown3231]

9 hours ago, topwop1 said:

The thing with Poles is he has no ties to Fields and before he was hired he apparently told Bears ownership that this team lacked blue chip talent and that his goal was to build that up through the draft

Well let's just say we do end up with two top-5 picks and #1 overall, which is looking pretty good at this point, people really think he's not going to get a chance to select those picks given he instrumented the trade that landed one of those picks and the fact that Fields was never his pick at QB?

Call me a little skeptical he'll be fired...not that there aren't reasons that  the case can be made for doing so...but he's a young GM who's still learning on the fly in the midst of a rebuild. Bears had to expect this wasn't going to be a quick fix. He's not going to be perfect in every move that he makes

At least it sounds like he's willing to move on quickly from his mistakes..now with the news that Claypool is on the trade block. Still a horrible trade at the end of the day ...but I understood the logic behind it at the time 

Let me preface all of this by saying I don't really know what I want them to do right now because I am torn 50/50 right now, but...

To play devil's advocate, the "Fields isn't his QB" excuse is growing old isn't it? What does that have to do with the fact that after 2 years they're worse off than they were the day before he was hired?

Has he added any blue chip talent in 2 offseasons? Maybe Moore? We can say Eberflus wanted the LB's, but that doesn't excuse Poles for this DL.

He won't be perfect in every move he makes, but has he been even close to perfect? Four 2nd round picks in 2 years and this is what he did with them? 

Has anyone confirmed he was handed 3 HC choices and chose Eberflus? Even if that was the case, I mentioned this yesterday but he doubles down often & I've seen/read/heard at least 2 interviews where he talks about how much he LOVES him.

I guess I'll end with this: if he's so young and inexperienced, do we want HIM to be in charge of what could be the most important offseason in team history (maybe two top 3-5 picks, new HC, $100M in cap room) or should they give somebody they trust a little more a chance?

Edited October 2, 2023 by beardown3231

[beardown3231]

9 hours ago, Epyon said:

I don't want to be that guy, but I very highly doubt we pick #2 even if we had the #2 pick.

We gonna take a trade to jump down to #3  or take a BIG haul  to move back further.

 

I could easily see something like jumping down for a Left Tackle, the next tier of WR, or someone like JerZon Newton-3T

I'd almost outright include Caleb Williams in the discussion of whether he'd prefer LT or WR help more if only to build some trust with the kid.

I wouldn't make that bet yet. Sure I get it, but passing on Harrison or Fashanu on a team with almost zero game changers would be a mistake. You better hope they can still get Alt or Bowers if they go down to 7-8. I'd almost prefer if they did move out of #2 that they find a way to stay in the top 5

FWIW this is all fun now but do any of us really think this year ends with them having the top 2 picks? That would be video game stuff

[BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW]

Aside from the strategic vision,  player evaluation, draft value, free agent research, staffing and team culture Poles has done fine. 

 

[Bigbear72]

At this point my greatest concern is that we are wasting Cairo Santos' best years on this crap! For the love of all that is right make it stop! 

[dll2000]

 

I think psychologically the tank year last year did a lot of damage even though it was a tank year.   

Because it was compounding on past events.   We had decades of mediocrity.   We finally had a very early pick and then didn't hit on Trubisky.  We had the doink loss in Philly in 2018 (which I still think is unfair to kicker).

Then we had the opening loss to GB in 2019 which was hugely devastating as people thought that team was a contender.    Followed by a terrible season.

The opening loss to GB after fanbase was excited was the bridge too far.   Not all of that is on Flus and Poles, but they are bearing a lot of weight of it all.

Now we are in this cycle of fire everyone even few years.  I talked about this many times over years.  You will never be successful doing that.  

It program building by bingo card or scratch off ticket or whatever analogy.    I would never do that.  Good programs win regardless of draft picks.   Detroit may turn into a good program - but they are just stocked full of talent at moment.  They did the bingo card method and it finally hit for them.   

I don't want to fire everyone in season and I have not moved on from Fields.   I still think he can be good.  I think it is organizational failure.   

BUT if that is decision that is going to be made.

You should trade Fields right now - he had a good half of football and showed his potential.  His value is highest now.  

Then play Bagent rest of the year.   You will likely get number one overall from Carolina or us and you draft whatever the number 1 QBs name is and get on with ruining him.   

Having top two picks in draft will at least buy you a lot of bingo cards and really increase your odds.  

I think you have no choice, but to keep the staff in place.

If you fire Flus you have no DC.   And promoting Getsy to HC would have him completely out of his depth. 

You can't just bring in outside coaches without the ACs in place.

Other question is how do you fire this GMs entire staff and keep him?  Who picked the staff?

If you are going to do that you fire the GM too.   So we get all new people.  Either a retread or a first timer in there somewhere. 

It seems to be what we are going to do at some point.   I will hope the bingo cards hit this time. 

[dll2000]

I say all that and I would have likely hired McDaniels (the Raiders one) who is arguably worse than Flus/Getsy.

In my defense I may not have because I would have been able to interview him and others who know him- and that would have likely (I like to think) changed my mind.   I am pretty good at knowing characters in person when I can talk to them and I can talk to others off record.

Few are going to tell truth about someone on record.   But many will tell truth in a private conversation.

 But who knows, I may be in same situation.  But I never would have hired a DC to be my HC in today's NFL.   I know that.

Who ever I hired would have been an experienced and knowledgeable offensive coach who also had knowledge of defense.   I thought McDaniels fit that on paper.   

I am dealing only with watching his offenses and game plans in New England over years.   I don't have inside info interviews and phone calls bring.

 

 

[Ty21]

Panthers have a pretty rough 3-4 weeks coming up 

[HuskieBear]

4 minutes ago, Ty21 said:

Panthers have a pretty rough 3-4 weeks coming up 

thats a shame

[beardown3231]

Currently, @WindyCity is having a twitter fight with someone who called Gordon "a breakout player," Brisker "a building block with plenty of potential," and Velus "looks serviceable," all because his opponent said Poles has drafted really well

Now we just need him or @Madmike90 to give us our first mock offseason

Edited October 2, 2023 by beardown3231

[BeaReylo]

21 hours ago, Ty21 said:

Was it the exposed midsection?

Can't say I blame him; If you had abs like that would't you want to show them off too?

[Epyon]

Saw a poll on youtube asking "Who Bears fans would prefer as QB:  Caleb Williams or Justin Fields?"

Fields is winning by over 5%.......  What in the actual hell....

 

 

Also unrelated but bears reddit meme game is on point:

[Pool]

4 hours ago, Epyon said:

Saw a poll on youtube asking "Who Bears fans would prefer as QB:  Caleb Williams or Justin Fields?"

Fields is winning by over 5%.......  What in the actual hell....

 

 

Also unrelated but bears reddit meme game is on point:

They always find ways to go lower

[topwop1]

14 hours ago, beardown3231 said:

Let me preface all of this by saying I don't really know what I want them to do right now because I am torn 50/50 right now, but...

To play devil's advocate, the "Fields isn't his QB" excuse is growing old isn't it? What does that have to do with the fact that after 2 years they're worse off than they were the day before he was hired?

Has he added any blue chip talent in 2 offseasons? Maybe Moore? We can say Eberflus wanted the LB's, but that doesn't excuse Poles for this DL.

He won't be perfect in every move he makes, but has he been even close to perfect? Four 2nd round picks in 2 years and this is what he did with them? 

Has anyone confirmed he was handed 3 HC choices and chose Eberflus? Even if that was the case, I mentioned this yesterday but he doubles down often & I've seen/read/heard at least 2 interviews where he talks about how much he LOVES him.

I guess I'll end with this: if he's so young and inexperienced, do we want HIM to be in charge of what could be the most important offseason in team history (maybe two top 3-5 picks, new HC, $100M in cap room) or should they give somebody they trust a little more a chance?

You make good points for not keeping Poles

For the record I have no allegiance to him. If he gets canned then so be it

I was just pointing out it's pretty rare for a GM to get fired this early into his tenure but the team is so bad and that is a reflection on the GM and his staff 

[topwop1]

11 hours ago, dll2000 said:

 

I think psychologically the tank year last year did a lot of damage even though it was a tank year.   

Because it was compounding on past events.   We had decades of mediocrity.   We finally had a very early pick and then didn't hit on Trubisky.  We had the doink loss in Philly in 2018 (which I still think is unfair to kicker).

Then we had the opening loss to GB in 2019 which was hugely devastating as people thought that team was a contender.    Followed by a terrible season.

The opening loss to GB after fanbase was excited was the bridge too far.   Not all of that is on Flus and Poles, but they are bearing a lot of weight of it all.

Now we are in this cycle of fire everyone even few years.  I talked about this many times over years.  You will never be successful doing that.  

It program building by bingo card or scratch off ticket or whatever analogy.    I would never do that.  Good programs win regardless of draft picks.   Detroit may turn into a good program - but they are just stocked full of talent at moment.  They did the bingo card method and it finally hit for them.   

I don't want to fire everyone in season and I have not moved on from Fields.   I still think he can be good.  I think it is organizational failure.   

BUT if that is decision that is going to be made.

You should trade Fields right now - he had a good half of football and showed his potential.  His value is highest now.  

Then play Bagent rest of the year.   You will likely get number one overall from Carolina or us and you draft whatever the number 1 QBs name is and get on with ruining him.   

Having top two picks in draft will at least buy you a lot of bingo cards and really increase your odds.  

I think you have no choice, but to keep the staff in place.

If you fire Flus you have no DC.   And promoting Getsy to HC would have him completely out of his depth. 

You can't just bring in outside coaches without the ACs in place.

Other question is how do you fire this GMs entire staff and keep him?  Who picked the staff?

If you are going to do that you fire the GM too.   So we get all new people.  Either a retread or a first timer in there somewhere. 

It seems to be what we are going to do at some point.   I will hope the bingo cards hit this time. 

I disagree with trading Fields...for this season anyway 

There's no guarantee we end up with the #1 pick any way you look at it and that we end up with a QB better than Fields for next season 

He still has at least one year left on his rookie deal after this season so there's no rush to make a decision on him just yet 

I'm not convinced Tyson Bagent is the next Brock Purdy either

A lot of us have stressed that Fields should be given the whole year to prove his worth and see his development as a passer...so just because the team is 0-4 that doesn't change that

We need to let the entire season play out

And I also agree that I wouldn't fire the coaching staff until seasons end. They're probably not keeping much or any of these coaches so it's not like they need to evaluate anything there. Plus Flus further helps the tank job...and when is the last time bears fired a coach in season? Never because that's just not a thing that this organization does so it's pointless to even think about 

Edited October 3, 2023 by topwop1