Week 3 GDT: Raiders vs. Steelers - Waitin' all day for a Sunday Night

[Darbsk]

3 hours ago, Totty said:

Can we use his head coaching record from this decade?  

You can use whatever you choose, but to me, more recent records are more relevant I think.

There’s always going to be that Denver skeleton in his locker and if you want to hold that against him you can of course, but I don’t think he’s the same coach now as he was then.

Maybe that’s optimistic or naive and maybe over time he’ll prove to be exactly the same coach but to use what happened a decade ago as the main reason someone thinks a coach is bad right now doesn’t make sense to me.

[Darbsk]

18 minutes ago, Jerry said:

Didn't he set the record as a HC for most losses after leading by double digits in a season last season?

This whole wait and see game is agony.

Yes, he surely did. That was awful and frustrating and annoying but it was just one season. If the same thing happens this year I think we have a trend but I don’t think it does.

Sooner or later we have to give a FO time I think, we did that with Gruden to an extent after an horrendous start to his dictatorship and it was starting to turn around, even with awful drafting. What’s another year after all the agony we’ve been through the last twenty years eh?

[Nightmare]

It’s a huge “NO” from me with regards to Bienemy.

[big_palooka]

8 hours ago, Darbsk said:

Yes, he surely did. That was awful and frustrating and annoying but it was just one season. If the same thing happens this year I think we have a trend but I don’t think it does.

Sooner or later we have to give a FO time I think, we did that with Gruden to an extent after an horrendous start to his dictatorship and it was starting to turn around, even with awful drafting. What’s another year after all the agony we’ve been through the last twenty years eh?

This is all of I've been saying. This franchise needs consistency. The constant turnover in the FO and coaching doesn't allow for things to take hold. We've seen the roster purged several times since Mark took over ownership. Each time, your draft classes become collateral damage as new guys are brought in. 

This team has been a wasteland of talent for decades. I get Raider fans just want to win, but it's difficult when you lack talent on several levels. While Graham leaves a lot to be desired as a DC, what do we expect with the the talent on that side of the ball? His defenses ranked 9th and 16th in total defense in NY, so he's show promise when he has a good Dline. 

Also agree with McDaniels time in Denver. It's meaningless. I think he's shown maturity since that time. And he looks to be doing things his way.

This will be a good conversation for the end of the season when we can view things in totality.

 

[NCOUGHMAN]

12 hours ago, Jerry said:

Didn't he set the record as a HC for most losses after leading by double digits in a season last season?

This whole wait and see game is agony.

This. Time waits for no man. Tell maxx aye buddy you gonna havta wait 2-3 years for Wilson to be anything. Or adams. Ain’t no telling who will even still be here 2-3 years from now. Most teams get direct results while we have to wait 2-3 years. It’s insane. 

[big_palooka]

7 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

This. Time waits for no man. Tell maxx aye buddy you gonna havta wait 2-3 years for Wilson to be anything. Or adams. Ain’t no telling who will even still be here 2-3 years from now. Most teams get direct results while we have to wait 2-3 years. It’s insane. 

The teams getting "direct results" are the teams that already have established rosters and coaching. 

The teams that struggle year over year are the ones constantly overturning their staffs and failing to construct a baseline roster. 

[NCOUGHMAN]

2 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

The teams getting "direct results" are the teams that already have established rosters and coaching. 

The teams that struggle year over year are the ones constantly overturning their staffs and failing to construct a baseline roster. 

And the teams that bomb the draft struggle. so far this draft class looks weak af. Top 3 picks aren’t contributing nada except your boy tray. Bennett is the most valuable so far and that’s sad.

[Jerry]

13 hours ago, Darbsk said:

Yes, he surely did. That was awful and frustrating and annoying but it was just one season. If the same thing happens this year I think we have a trend but I don’t think it does.

Sooner or later we have to give a FO time I think, we did that with Gruden to an extent after an horrendous start to his dictatorship and it was starting to turn around, even with awful drafting. What’s another year after all the agony we’ve been through the last twenty years eh?

I'm starting to wonder if I'm going to live long enough to see the Raiders win a SB.  I'm 35.  We look mid as heck right now.  This vision McDaniels has is going to take another 2-3 years at the rate he's going.  We have very few pieces right now.  I can't even tell if we are developing any talent via the draft (I don't think we are).  Our FAs are mostly here for only 1-3 years, so they aren't long-term pieces to the puzzle.  I'm tired of people saying give coaches time when I see coaches come into teams and turn them around in a single offseason, and somehow, we should wait like 3-4 years before seeing any results.

Also, McDaniels doesn't seem to coach to player's strengths.  You either fit his system or you look like garbage.  I hate coaches like that.

 

[NCOUGHMAN]

3 minutes ago, Jerry said:

I'm starting to wonder if I'm going to live long enough to see the Raiders win a SB.  I'm 35.  We look mid as heck right now.  This vision McDaniels has is going to take another 2-3 years at the rate he's going.  We have very few pieces right now.  I can't even tell if we are developing any talent via the draft (I don't think we are).  Our FAs are mostly here for only 1-3 years, so they aren't long-term pieces to the puzzle.  I'm tired of people saying give coaches time when I see coaches come into teams and turn them around in a single offseason, and somehow, we should wait like 3-4 years before seeing any results.

Also, McDaniels doesn't seem to coach to player's strengths.  You either fit his system or you look like garbage.  I hate coaches like that.

 

Then he gets the guys that fit his system and it looks worse than the guys who didn’t fit. Make it make sense. 

[Darbsk]

50 minutes ago, Jerry said:

I'm starting to wonder if I'm going to live long enough to see the Raiders win a SB.  I'm 35.  We look mid as heck right now.  This vision McDaniels has is going to take another 2-3 years at the rate he's going.  We have very few pieces right now.  I can't even tell if we are developing any talent via the draft (I don't think we are).  Our FAs are mostly here for only 1-3 years, so they aren't long-term pieces to the puzzle.  I'm tired of people saying give coaches time when I see coaches come into teams and turn them around in a single offseason, and somehow, we should wait like 3-4 years before seeing any results.

Also, McDaniels doesn't seem to coach to player's strengths.  You either fit his system or you look like garbage.  I hate coaches like that.

 

We’re not the Chargers so I think we’ll see them hoist the Lombardi again! 2002 was such an awesome season apart from the finale and I can barely remember 1983 as I was young 😁

It’s easy to preach patience I know and so hard to just sit through season after season of false dawns, calamities and embarrassments. We all want a quick fix and when we see other teams seemingly turn around quick I feeds that.

The trouble with our particular situation I feel is that because of our absolutely shocking drafting we’re simply not one or two pieces away that can make a monumental change quickly. We need a couple years of good drafting and a sensible year or two of free agent acquisitions. Realistically I think two years could have us as a real contender if they do it well, that is the billion dollar question though isn’t it, can we draft well? Can we build a team and system well? 

[true2form]

53 minutes ago, Darbsk said:

We’re not the Chargers so I think we’ll see them hoist the Lombardi again! 2002 was such an awesome season apart from the finale and I can barely remember 1983 as I was young 😁

It’s easy to preach patience I know and so hard to just sit through season after season of false dawns, calamities and embarrassments. We all want a quick fix and when we see other teams seemingly turn around quick I feeds that.

The trouble with our particular situation I feel is that because of our absolutely shocking drafting we’re simply not one or two pieces away that can make a monumental change quickly. We need a couple years of good drafting and a sensible year or two of free agent acquisitions. Realistically I think two years could have us as a real contender if they do it well, that is the billion dollar question though isn’t it, can we draft well? Can we build a team and system well? 

This where I start to have doubts about this regime.  I tend to lean to the same side as what you and @big_palooka have been saying about patience and give them 3 years and that's the fair way, etc etc.

However, there is absolutely zero confidence from me in this regime on anything they've done.  I just wish there was something they've done that I could point to and say that's what I'm talking about, there's a building block or I see what they're trying to do there.

Instead it's all jumbled and looks like they have no plan and do everything on the fly.  I'd even be ok with that if things started to become more clear, but that turning point still hasn't come. 

[big_palooka]

3 hours ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

And the teams that bomb the draft struggle. so far this draft class looks weak af. Top 3 picks aren’t contributing nada except your boy tray. Bennett is the most valuable so far and that’s sad.

Judging a draft class 2 weeks in is just dumb. I'll leave it at that. 

The expectation some fans have of rookies is ridiculous.

 

[big_palooka]

2 hours ago, Jerry said:

I'm starting to wonder if I'm going to live long enough to see the Raiders win a SB.  I'm 35.  We look mid as heck right now.  This vision McDaniels has is going to take another 2-3 years at the rate he's going.  We have very few pieces right now.  I can't even tell if we are developing any talent via the draft (I don't think we are).  Our FAs are mostly here for only 1-3 years, so they aren't long-term pieces to the puzzle.  I'm tired of people saying give coaches time when I see coaches come into teams and turn them around in a single offseason, and somehow, we should wait like 3-4 years before seeing any results.

Also, McDaniels doesn't seem to coach to player's strengths.  You either fit his system or you look like garbage.  I hate coaches like that.

 

That happens with teams who have some talent to start with. And usually the result of playing a last place schedule. Giants and Vikings last year looked great, made the playoffs. Now both are trending downwards. Sean Payton is a Super Bowl winner, joined a talentless Denver team. They will need a few years.

I do get the frustration but it starts with the fact that every time a coach takes over the Raiders, they walk into a bad situation. And worse, they can't draft their way out of it. The missed draft picks over the years are directly the problem with this team. 

What players are not playing to their strengths? I don't see that personally. 

[Darbsk]

34 minutes ago, true2form said:

This where I start to have doubts about this regime.  I tend to lean to the same side as what you and @big_palooka have been saying about patience and give them 3 years and that's the fair way, etc etc.

However, there is absolutely zero confidence from me in this regime on anything they've done.  I just wish there was something they've done that I could point to and say that's what I'm talking about, there's a building block or I see what they're trying to do there.

Instead it's all jumbled and looks like they have no plan and do everything on the fly.  I'd even be ok with that if things started to become more clear, but that turning point still hasn't come. 

I can’t really argue with this. This is fair.

The handling of the Carr situation, whether or not you liked Carr was sub optimal. QBs are valuable assets and we got nothing for a valuable asset.

The Waller and Renfrow extensions look questionable.

Trading Ngakoue and bringing in Jones on a massive contract is looking farcical at this juncture.

Last years draft class is questionable at best, though Parham and Munford are good picks.

Bringing in dozens of WRs and RBs and only addressing the defence with stop gaps and journeymen is questionable. 

This last draft, Wilson, Mayers, Young and Tucker are all questionable picks who may or may not work out and there were other higher percentage picks available.

Free agency has been underwhelming though they may actually be done good ones.

Garoppolo is definitely a move that’s divided people.

Theres probably a few more questionable moves I’ve forgotten but if we’re going on these moves then there’s limited reasons to be confident. I’m not entirely confident, truth be told. I just feel it’s right to give this regime time as the downside is not really that bad compared to where we were.

[true2form]

8 minutes ago, Darbsk said:

I can’t really argue with this. This is fair.

The handling of the Carr situation, whether or not you liked Carr was sub optimal. QBs are valuable assets and we got nothing for a valuable asset.

The Waller and Renfrow extensions look questionable.

Trading Ngakoue and bringing in Jones on a massive contract is looking farcical at this juncture.

Last years draft class is questionable at best, though Parham and Munford are good picks.

Bringing in dozens of WRs and RBs and only addressing the defence with stop gaps and journeymen is questionable. 

This last draft, Wilson, Mayers, Young and Tucker are all questionable picks who may or may not work out and there were other higher percentage picks available.

Free agency has been underwhelming though they may actually be done good ones.

Garoppolo is definitely a move that’s divided people.

Theres probably a few more questionable moves I’ve forgotten but if we’re going on these moves then there’s limited reasons to be confident. I’m not entirely confident, truth be told. I just feel it’s right to give this regime time as the downside is not really that bad compared to where we were.

Exactly, I'm willing to be patient, but you gotta show me something.  It's not a free 3 year pass from me.