State of Titans convo: Non-game specific

[deeluxx3]

Maybe this thread will prove to be unnecessary/worthless like the majority of our roster. Maybe it'll prove to be amazing like Nick Folk.

But starting a new thread to just talk general titans grievances, wants, needs, etc.

 

This team sucks right now.

Levis needs to start the rest of the season.

NPF should start at LT until he proves unworthy of the position. 

This team lacks leadership across the board.

We should be sellers at the deadline, Treylon Burks should be shipped.

Our defense is terrible

 

honestly...what more could we really expect right now given the roster JRob put together? We are losing winnable games because we dont have the players to overcome even slight operational issues like 5 yard penalities. Our star players aren't shining consistently. Is what it is.

[seminoles1]

We have no good young talent and little draft capital. We are not in a good state.

[TitanSlim]

I’ll just repost my long post I had in the GDT

This might be a bit of a long post but just thinking about the state of the franchise.

First things first, we have to let Levis/Willis start the rest of the way and let the chips fall as they may. It’s obvious that this is the perfect time to make the move to one of the young guys and see what we have.

We’re on pace for a top 10 pick, which is honestly the best thing for us. We’re either in position to select a top QB, get an elite prospect at a premiere position or trade back for more draft capital that we desperately need (and still potentially be in position to get an top, blue chip prospect).

I’m feeling somewhat bleak about the future outlook of the team but one thing I have to constantly remind myself is how quick things can change in this league. You draft well, make a few key free agent signings and coaching hires and you can be right back competing. Draft a franchise QB, and you’re instantly right there. Look at where the Eagles, Dolphins, Lions and Bengals were a few years ago and where they are now. Hell, look at where we were as a franchise a few years ago compared to now. Things can change quickly.

These next few years may be kinda rough but I look at our window to really build something between now and when our new stadium is built (2027).The organization as a whole needs to be realistic with where we are as a franchise and move accordingly. We’re not competing and we look years away from being legit competitors.The goal by the time the new stadium opens, should be to field a legit contender. There’s no reason why we shouldn’t when that’s 3-4 years away. We just need to be realistic about it.

All in all, this year and the next few years will be interesting to say the least. We’ll see if Ran sinks or swims.

[615finest]

I’m mentally prepared for us to have a top 5 pick which in all honesty is probably the best for the organization. We need the talent, plus we could trade for more draft capital which we desperately need.

i honestly just hope we turn to the young QBs. Let Willis get a couple games as a starter and if he sucks we turn to Levis. Then we’ll have some type of direction for the offseason 

[deeluxx3]

Trying to be objective about Vrabel....I'm obviously a huge huge fan and not trying to let a 2-11 record in our last 13 games sway me too much...

 

I don't think there's a "Vrabel system" offensively like has been alluded to. When we've had talent on this O (and Art), nobody could really gripe about our "style" of offense. It wore teams down, it got in the EZ, it got AJB the ball. OL was a strength. Moving to Tim Kelly/Charles London has been, IMO, a good move. There's a clear and obvious lack of talent on offense. If we aren't getting SOMETHING out of Hopkins/Henry/Spears, we're toast. That's a roster thing more than Vrabel/coaching IMO...esp w/ how bad our OL is. That's not to say there aren't things we can criticize here and there. We just don't have enough dudes on the team. Treylon is bad. Phillips is bad. Chig is probably, also, bad. That's basically 4 drafts in a row where we're getting zero offensive help at the skill position.

Defensively...I can't sit here and say I know much about schemes, etc. Nor what Pees did or what Schwartz did that Vrabel/Bowen cannot figure out. We have no consistent edge pass rush. Landry is awful right now...which is understandable...but was never a true game breaker. He needs talent around him. Key is JAG, more of rotational piece IMO. Simmons is our best player but needs more around him to not disappear. Is what it is.

Secondary cannot overcome the lack of pass rush. I think SMB, Hooker, Byard and McCreary are guys to keep (although I understand moving on from Byard), but we need a true number 1 corner. I think we'd see night and day from our DBs if Fulton got replaced w/ a real NFL player and our pass rush could be more effective. 

I think we miss David Long. I like him better than AAS so far. Gibbens is JAG, but not an issue. Maybe coaching is more of a problem defensively and its not all personnel...but fact is, we cant get consistent edge pass rush. And defenses basically live or die on their pass rush.

 

More than anything, it comes back to players. And we just don't have enough of them right now. I don't think that's a Vrabel thing as much of a JRob thing. We can say that Vrabel picks the players...and that may be true...but in one offseason of Vrabel/RC, we got: Skoronski, Hopkins and Spears on the offensive side of the ball. That's not that bad IMO. We just need to find a QB and more guys who can get open. 

 

[-Hope-]

4 minutes ago, deeluxx3 said:

Trying to be objective about Vrabel....I'm obviously a huge huge fan and not trying to let a 2-11 record in our last 13 games sway me too much...

 

I don't think there's a "Vrabel system" offensively like has been alluded to. When we've had talent on this O (and Art), nobody could really gripe about our "style" of offense. It wore teams down, it got in the EZ, it got AJB the ball. OL was a strength. Moving to Tim Kelly/Charles London has been, IMO, a good move. There's a clear and obvious lack of talent on offense. If we aren't getting SOMETHING out of Hopkins/Henry/Spears, we're toast. That's a roster thing more than Vrabel/coaching IMO...esp w/ how bad our OL is. That's not to say there aren't things we can criticize here and there. We just don't have enough dudes on the team. Treylon is bad. Phillips is bad. Chig is probably, also, bad. That's basically 4 drafts in a row where we're getting zero offensive help at the skill position.

Defensively...I can't sit here and say I know much about schemes, etc. Nor what Pees did or what Schwartz did that Vrabel/Bowen cannot figure out. We have no consistent edge pass rush. Landry is awful right now...which is understandable...but was never a true game breaker. He needs talent around him. Key is JAG, more of rotational piece IMO. Simmons is our best player but needs more around him to not disappear. Is what it is.

Secondary cannot overcome the lack of pass rush. I think SMB, Hooker, Byard and McCreary are guys to keep (although I understand moving on from Byard), but we need a true number 1 corner. I think we'd see night and day from our DBs if Fulton got replaced w/ a real NFL player and our pass rush could be more effective. 

I think we miss David Long. I like him better than AAS so far. Gibbens is JAG, but not an issue. Maybe coaching is more of a problem defensively and its not all personnel...but fact is, we cant get consistent edge pass rush. And defenses basically live or die on their pass rush.

 

More than anything, it comes back to players. And we just don't have enough of them right now. I don't think that's a Vrabel thing as much of a JRob thing. We can say that Vrabel picks the players...and that may be true...but in one offseason of Vrabel/RC, we got: Skoronski, Hopkins and Spears on the offensive side of the ball. That's not that bad IMO. We just need to find a QB and more guys who can get open. 

 

was listening to some random postgame podcast and they brought up something that i hadn't really been thinking of but which is pretty obviously true: dillard is the only whiff of the ran carthon era thus far. and it sucks that it happened at the most obviously important position. but every single other FA has ranged from solid (key, AAS, moore) to good (SMB, hopkins, brunskill). we have two draft picks who are looking like hits (skoronski, spears) and obviously if levis hits that becomes the biggest win of them all....though that's a pretty big if which i hold plenty of skepticism about. but the point is, we have to hope carthon keeps up a solid hit rate, because if he does we will get better almost by default with how terrible the roster is now.

[deeluxx3]

3 minutes ago, -Hope- said:

was listening to some random postgame podcast and they brought up something that i hadn't really been thinking of but which is pretty obviously true: dillard is the only whiff of the ran carthon era thus far. and it sucks that it happened at the most obviously important position. but every single other FA has ranged from solid (key, AAS, moore) to good (SMB, hopkins, brunskill). we have two draft picks who are looking like hits (skoronski, spears) and obviously if levis hits that becomes the biggest win of them all....though that's a pretty big if which i hold plenty of skepticism about. but the point is, we have to hope carthon keeps up a solid hit rate, because if he does we will get better almost by default with how terrible the roster is now.

Yeah overall you can’t really knock the guys we brought in thru draft/FA this offseason. WE all know this, but the average fan has no idea what JRob did to ruin this roster. It’s way beyond AJB trade.

im hopeful for the future. I believe in Vrabel and ran. We are just going thru the painful part right now, but it’s fair to question why we didn’t just totally tear it down in the offseason. I don’t think we were wrong in thinking we could compete this year, though, but it was dependent on guys like Burks and Chig not being completely useless

[TitanLegend]

5 minutes ago, deeluxx3 said:

Trying to be objective about Vrabel....I'm obviously a huge huge fan and not trying to let a 2-11 record in our last 13 games sway me too much...

 

I don't think there's a "Vrabel system" offensively like has been alluded to. When we've had talent on this O (and Art), nobody could really gripe about our "style" of offense. It wore teams down, it got in the EZ, it got AJB the ball. OL was a strength. Moving to Tim Kelly/Charles London has been, IMO, a good move. There's a clear and obvious lack of talent on offense. If we aren't getting SOMETHING out of Hopkins/Henry/Spears, we're toast. That's a roster thing more than Vrabel/coaching IMO...esp w/ how bad our OL is. That's not to say there aren't things we can criticize here and there. We just don't have enough dudes on the team. Treylon is bad. Phillips is bad. Chig is probably, also, bad. That's basically 4 drafts in a row where we're getting zero offensive help at the skill position.

Defensively...I can't sit here and say I know much about schemes, etc. Nor what Pees did or what Schwartz did that Vrabel/Bowen cannot figure out. We have no consistent edge pass rush. Landry is awful right now...which is understandable...but was never a true game breaker. He needs talent around him. Key is JAG, more of rotational piece IMO. Simmons is our best player but needs more around him to not disappear. Is what it is.

Secondary cannot overcome the lack of pass rush. I think SMB, Hooker, Byard and McCreary are guys to keep (although I understand moving on from Byard), but we need a true number 1 corner. I think we'd see night and day from our DBs if Fulton got replaced w/ a real NFL player and our pass rush could be more effective. 

I think we miss David Long. I like him better than AAS so far. Gibbens is JAG, but not an issue. Maybe coaching is more of a problem defensively and its not all personnel...but fact is, we cant get consistent edge pass rush. And defenses basically live or die on their pass rush.

 

More than anything, it comes back to players. And we just don't have enough of them right now. I don't think that's a Vrabel thing as much of a JRob thing. We can say that Vrabel picks the players...and that may be true...but in one offseason of Vrabel/RC, we got: Skoronski, Hopkins and Spears on the offensive side of the ball. That's not that bad IMO. We just need to find a QB and more guys who can get open. 

 

I was one who hoped and posted that I'd keep Schwartz over Bowen and we should make that change, but with that being said, I don't think Bowen(or Vrabel) are an issue defensively. Our defense, schematically, I think is good. I think the biggest difference this year( and a lot of last) compared to our best years with Pees and Schwartz(though Pees and Schwartz offered some different things schematically from each other, but both were effective here) is just how bad our secondary has been, more specifically, the corner play.

I have no idea what has happened to Fulton. Fulton was looking every bit like a high end #2 to low end #1 corner to start his career. He was playing some really good football in 2021. Then injuries hit, and I don't know if that's effected him mentally or what. But he was supposed to be our top guy. And while not having an elite #1 cb obviously isn't ideal, we could quite easily make it with a player of his quality as our #1 corner and then supplementing with guys like Bunting, McCreary, etc around him and been fine given how well our front 7 can play when firing on all cylinders.

It's not just that Fulton is incapable of covering #1 receivers anymore, he's incapable of covering anyone. And that has a domino effect. If Fulton was supposed to be the guy we could put on the top receiver and have success with at a decent rate, and now we can't even rely on him to cover the opponent's worst receiver, now McCreary is having to face higher competition more often than we'd likely planned, now we're having to play Avery extensive snaps, now Bunting is having to step in to that role of covering the top guy more often(to Bunting's credit, he's been better in that role than I'd have figured, but still probably not a guy you want consistently in that task.)

One of Ran's biggest responsibilities this off season will be fixing the cb room. Bunting's a good player, resign him to a 2-3 year deal, McCreary is fine as our 3rd guy, and reboot on trying to find a new #1. May have to come in the draft, as there aren't great options in FA.

[Daniel]

39 minutes ago, 615finest said:

i honestly just hope we turn to the young QBs. Let Willis get a couple games as a starter and if he sucks we turn to Levis. Then we’ll have some type of direction for the offseason 

That's where I am.  I want to see what both have.  Hell, even if you give Willis a couple of games and he turns up and plays well, I still want to see Levis anyway.  If one looks like he's actually ready to be a legit starter, then the other one may have trade value, and with as little draft capital as we have right now, being able to recoup a second or third day pick for one of the QBs might be worth it.

Of course, that's only if one looks like a legit starter right now.  I expect neither one will look great, but one will still win the competition.  In which case, I'd say keep both and at least they're both cheap.

[Dr.Doom52]

Agree with most in here, but I am on the side of starting Levis, then if he is terrible go back to Willis. We simply have to find out what Levis is/can be...we know what Willis is, but not what he can be...though it would take some serious patients to sit through several games of Willis growing pains. 

I've been out on Vrabel since he promoted Todd Downing...then retained him, then didn't fire him, then fired him and hired the guy he would have had replace him if he fired him...hope that all made sense. We need an offensive mind with a fresh perspective, so if we turn it around we don't lose the Offensive mind that is in place. We need to get someone that Ran wants and will put butts in the seats of the new stadium. 

We have so much money tied up in players that simply are not producing...Landry, Byard, Tanny, Hooker and likely others I am not thinking of...I say this because it's the best sign that it's time to rebuild. We have to cut bait on anyone we can and makes sense...some guys may not make sense financially. 

We as a fan base need hope, right now we are getting rinse and repeat and that just sucks.

[615finest]

Time to roll wit the young guns.. he definitely missing time 

[KingTitan]

I think the record wouldn't be a problem in the Titans community/fanbase if we all thought we'd be bad.  When we roll back Tanny, Henry. Add Hopkins. Return Promising Chig and hopeful about Burks and Phillips. Added Spears who looked great in the preseason..... Had a defense that returned Landry, even off injury with "healthy" Fulton, Byard, McCreary, Hooker and adding SMB. 
We thought, ok we can do this. 

Almost did it last year with less and a street FA at QB and Daley at OT. 

So expectation was to at least be 3-3 if not 4-2. 

With us being 2-4 and looking pedestrian in pretty much every game, that's disappointing. 

I think after the bye, now everyone will just "relax" and let it be. Accept losses more easily and just roll into whatever happens. 

[KingTitan]

I think these are encouraging because it seems like he has been preparing even tho he was behind the other two. 

If he can translate that confront and confidence to the field he could be ok. 

If...

[Mesa_Titan]

3 minutes ago, KingTitan said:

I think these are encouraging because it seems like he has been preparing even tho he was behind the other two. 

If he can translate that confront and confidence to the field he could be ok. 

If...

Dude just seems like such a Vrabel guy. That last part at the end when he said, "Without preparation you don't gain... or you don't EARN any confidence" just sounds like something Vrabs would say.😄

[titansNvolsR#1]

How’s Levis looked in practice? Feel like I haven’t seen much on him since he got hurt in TC.