Sugashane Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 55 minutes ago, dll2000 said: It's going to be wild arguing keep Fields or college QB until or if a trade happens (number 1 pick or Fields) and we know for sure. We are fairly divided on what is right thing to do. Can we at least agree it should be one or the other? Keeping a first round QB and Fields on same roster seems like a really bad idea to me. I am in trade Fields and draft QB camp. On that note I kind of wish Fields had played better in last game for better trade value, but if he had I think more people would be adamant that he not be traded. I had made up my mind after Cleveland game and based on whole season. People will be keeping receipts on this one I am sure. So that will be fun when Fields wins like 3 SBs for another team. My guess is nothing gets done until after combine (which I guess is when people do a lot of private in person talks). So we have a ways to go. No we can't. I want to fight! I want JJ a1st overall! When I'm not instigating I'm in the same camp. What about when he's the back up for those 3 Super Bowls? Same. Unless a crazy deal is offered that Poles just can't let pass then it's post Combine before any decision is made. 3 minutes ago, CBears019 said: Ok, he entered. Glad that’s done with. There was no way he was leaving this much money on the table for $3mil or whatever NIL. Bizarre anyone believed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 17 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said: Absolutely, this is not an Alex Smith situation, Justin Fields is not the type of QB that you have someone sit behind To be clear, This is absolutely a fair stance to have. My only thing with this, you have to be ABSOLYUTELY POSITIVE that you have your guy to draft. If you have any reservations, then to me, the haul you would likely get in return for 1.1 is too rich to pass on. That's fair position. I don't think it is possible to have NO reservations. I would assume that you are assuming improvement in Fields play with better coaching and added talent. I could reverse the statement and say in order to keep Fields you are 100% SURE he is going to improve on passing within pocket, speed of processing, drop back and late turnovers with above additions. It's all a matter of probabilities. --- Way I figure: Yes, Trading number 1 adds a lot of draft capital and young talent, possibly even a vet player ala DJ Moore trade. Though player trades are kind of rare in these deals. Trading Fields probably adds a 2nd only -possibly less - outside possibility of more. But, not having to pay Fields like Daniel Jones in very near future allows you more budget and cap space to sign and keep veterans. Also doesn't saddle you with a QB you no longer want. I may be okay with giving Fields another year to figure it out because he is supremely talented, but in our situation we are highly unlikely to have number 1 pick next year as a fall back again in case he doesn't. Our insurance policy is lapsing now. He hasn't made the improvements we have been looking for since Ohio St. not to enough of a degree anyway. The QB prospects this season are respected. A lot of people are predicting QBs go 1,2,3. I don't buy the argument that 2023 results were mostly everyone else's fault or his situation. I agree with that argument for 2022, but not 2023. He had sufficient protection, practice time and weapons to be better than he showed for most of games. He also had a pretty easy schedule in which to figure things out. Some games were less his fault than others. But it is an overall assessment of current weaknesses in his game. And I am not a stat guy first and foremost, but stats do provide a story and his story is not looking good. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 8 minutes ago, CBears019 said: Ok, he entered. Glad that’s done with. Shocked face. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 The other part of the QB decision may be job security at the top for the Bears. By keeping Eberflus, Poles has removed any space between himself and the HC as far as hiring. It may have been less risk for Poles personally to fire E and get a new HC and the time that buys, but he chose to likely tie their futures together. Given all that, and pretending it's a totally balanced choice between draft QB and FIelds, wouldn't it make sense for them to have the extra time that a fresh QB brings vs seeing what happens in what's likely to be one more year of Fields? I'm in a weird place where I'd be OK with Fields or draft QB as I really like Fields and there's at least a chance a new OC and better weapons helps him develop enough to make the big contract palatable. I personally would move on and hope they luck out with a drafted QB, as that seems to make everything else better and I don't the Bears are anything special in terms of talent or coaching otherwise. Watching intense arguments about one or the other is weird to me as the line between the two options is razor thin from where I sit. You really could convince me of either path, but the situation is so unique and forced the choice this offseason. The one thing I think we can all agree on is that we want whatever choice that gets made to work out, and that because it's the Bears it'll probably end in tears in some totally obvious but still disappointing way. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBears019 Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 I am curious how Williams will measure at the combine. I know he’s not huge, but he looks pretty short in these clips. At least he isn’t as skinny as Bryce Young. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLunatic88 Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 9 minutes ago, dll2000 said: I don't think it is possible to have NO reservations. Yea thats true, but I think you know what Im getting at. He has to be THE GUY for me to pull the trigger. And right now, I dont feel that with either of the Top 2 QBs. That can change, but I have too many unanswered questions right now. (to be fair Im not sure that we, the fans, will ever get that, which is why we have to trust Ryan Poles) 13 minutes ago, dll2000 said: I could reverse the statement and say in order to keep Fields you are 100% SURE he is going to improve on passing within pocket, speed of processing, drop back and late turnovers with above additions. I would see why you say that, but to me its not the case. Because I dont see Trading away #1 as stamping Justin Fields as THE GUY for the franchise. To me it would be saying he is our guy right now, but its not a long term commitment yet. I think thats where many of us have a disconnect. If you take one of these guys at 1.1, he is the franchise guy you are hitching your wagon to. He absolutely HAS to work out, or its hitting the reset button again in 3/4 years with a whole new regime once again. Where as if you take he Trade Haul, you can take one more swing with Fields in 2024, and then you have multiple Options. One scenario he greatly improves enough that he is The Guy that to give him a contract extension OR If its some improvement, but not enough you can keep riding it our through the 5YO with the Option of the Franchise Tag after OR if its now clearly time to move on you then have an horde of assets to go get whatever QB you want in 2025 or 2026, all while they continue to build up the rest of the roster from the nothing we had to start the 2022 offseason. There will be Draft Prospects then too, but there will also be Veterans available to go get as the final piece (ala Matt Stafford) I understand the plight of not ever having a QB, but if you are thinking we need to move on from Justin, then you are admitting that the last two times the Bears went and got a QB without the Roster being stable/set up for success it has completely failed. And unless Williams actually is the next Mahomes (I dont think so, I dont think its close honestly) we are staring at the possibility of doing the exact same thing for a 3rd time in a row. To me, being right back in this situation in the 2027 offseason, thats scarier than passing on a prospect. (and not even passing, but getting a bunch for him) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLunatic88 Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 2 minutes ago, CBears019 said: I am curious how Williams will measure at the combine. I know he’s not huge, but he looks pretty short in these clips. At least he isn’t as skinny as Bryce Young. Its going to be the story leading up to the Combine, I wont be shocked if he actually comes in just below 6'. That isnt a deal breaker, but it sure would be a tick in the wrong column in my eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epyon Posted January 15 Author Share Posted January 15 (edited) 5 minutes ago, CBears019 said: I am curious how Williams will measure at the combine. I know he’s not huge, but he looks pretty short in these clips. At least he isn’t as skinny as Bryce Young. Height and hand size both have me curious. I'm still drafting him #1 if the character checks all pan out but 6ft vs 6'1" is starting to get borderline.... And his fumbling issues have me really curious about hand size. Edited January 15 by Epyon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOGRIESE Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 4 minutes ago, CBears019 said: I am curious how Williams will measure at the combine. I know he’s not huge, but he looks pretty short in these clips. At least he isn’t as skinny as Bryce Young. Food for thought too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLunatic88 Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 16 minutes ago, BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW said: The other part of the QB decision may be job security at the top for the Bears. By keeping Eberflus, Poles has removed any space between himself and the HC as far as hiring. I dont think thats the case at all. Ryan Poles will be judged on how the team is doing, but alse and more importantly, how he is doing amassing talent/resources. Eberflus will be judged on how he is leading the team and wins on the field. Is there some link between the two? Sure, but they arent completely tied together. Also, drafting a rookie doesnt necessarily "buy you time" anymore, they are expected to win right away these days (just look at our situation) unless there is a specific plan to take a guy and sit them (ala Mahomes/Love) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLunatic88 Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 5 minutes ago, GOGRIESE said: Food for thought too What ties does Scangarello have to Coen other than he ran the Kentucky offense the year that Coen went to the NFL (and they fired him to get Coen back)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOGRIESE Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 Just now, StLunatic88 said: What ties does Scangarello have to Coen other than he ran the Kentucky offense the year that Coen went to the NFL (and they fired him to get Coen back)? That's it looks like Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBears019 Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 8 minutes ago, GOGRIESE said: Food for thought too yeah i saw that too, but i feel like finding connections between coaches is like playing 6 degrees of separation from Kevin bacon. They jump around so much, especially in the early years of coaching, that they’re all so intermingled and everyone knows everyone in one way or another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLunatic88 Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 5 minutes ago, GOGRIESE said: That's it looks like Ok so not actually a connection? This isnt a shot at you, it was clearly someone else who said it. Just this time of year, guys on twitter are often jumping the gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOGRIESE Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 2 minutes ago, CBears019 said: yeah i saw that too, but i feel like finding connections between coaches is like playing 6 degrees of separation from Kevin bacon. They jump around so much, especially in the early years of coaching, that they’re all so intermingled and everyone knows everyone in one way or another. That was a good reference CBears. Well done. Ofcourse there's probably a connection with all 4 guys so far. I think Liam Coen for me is the more intriguing one out of the 4. Certainly probably not the top candidate I would imagine but I love the offenses that he actually got to be apart of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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