Browns QB situation can be fixed easily

[Rod Johnson]

3 hours ago, Nastradamus said:

Of course its the most important player by far, but its also 1/22 of your starting lineup. I also believe there is high supply right now. Kizer doesn't need to be a franchise QB to not be a 2nd round bust and if QB is really your most valued position, I can't imagine hating that value. He'll clearly never be the answer, but if you find Blake Bortles at 53rd overall instead of 3rd overall, its quite a different situation. I mean, Kizer will probably start 50-100 games in his life. 

The Browns absolutely need a QB to win a significant amount of games in this league, but they also shouldn't be afraid to trade the 1st pick for a haul again if offered IMO, though I do think Darnold is special, so the haul would probably have to be even more than in past years. 

Good seeing you around again IAC

This.  Even as a Browns fan that has witness his incredible incompetency in decision making I believe he was a steal for where we selected him.  The error in his selection doesn't really fall on Kizer and where we picked him, it was that his selection was incoherent with the construction of our QB room.  Heading into 2017 we had Kessler, Osweiler, and Hogan on our roster.  It seemed apparent to myself and many that the Browns would not attempt to find a QB of the future in this draft despite the obvious inadequacy on the roster because Kessler seemed like a viable stop gap, somebody who played in Hue's offense for a season that could manage games without a true veteran QB necessary.  In April it seemed logical that Osweiler would simply be cut or traded off, as we all understand the unique quality of Brock's terribleness is that he doesn't provide any intellectual virtue to the position and simultaneously believes himself a viable starter in this league.  He could not win football games or aid the progression of somebody who can.

But instead of committing wholly to the Kessler plan that one would conclude as an outsider, it seemed that Hue and Sashi had a different plan altogether, and probably different from each other.  We draft Kizer, a project QB, we start Brock (to increase his trade value? because somebody actually viewed him as viable? who knows...).  Kessler performs terrible in the preseason (as he had last preseason, its apparent that he can't be good in an offense that scripts him to throw downfield, preseason is meant to follow script), Brock plays like Brock and we cut him.  Kizer easily plays the best out of the crop and we commit to him as our starter, something that ideally would have been ruled out from the offset.

In short, had the Browns kept somebody around like McCown or (insert any journeyman vet) that they could reasonably write in as a starter for the season, then much of Kizer's rookie struggles would have been managed by either not playing or playing circumstantially.  Kizer would have been a great selection for a team phasing out an older, diminishing QB even as high as round 2.  If he was on the Steelers he would be considered their future beyond Ben, he is talented enough to deserve that merit.  He's clearly much better than he was the first half of the season, showing that progression into adequacy is possible, but still not close to adequate.  I think he obviously has a future in the league but his ideal upbringing does not line up with his current surroundings.  And in that respect, it can be said the Browns wasted a 2nd round selection on him, although that's contingent on how things play out next year.

[candyman93]

Some good news.

 

Current top-10 order of the 2018 NFL Draft: 1) #Browns 2) #Giants 3) #49ers 4) #Colts 5) #Browns (from HOU) 6) #Broncos 7) #Buccaneers 8) #Bears 9) #Bengals 10) #Jets

[MWil23]

My biggest argument with the Browns QB situation is that I feel like they have made a LOT of half-measured efforts when it comes to addressing the QB situation. They haven't made a truly legitimate attempt to draft THE BEST guy since 1999. 

They haven't drafted one higher than 22nd since 1999.

They have drafted a lot of guys considered by most/if not everyone about the 3rd/4th best prospect in the draft, and it has shown. Granted, some will point out the exceptions. However, for every "exception" like Dak Prescott and Russell Wilson, I'll raise you a Charlie Frye, Colt McCoy, Johnny Manziel, and Brandon Weeden, not to mention a DeShone Kizer, Spurgeon Wynn, or Cody Kessler.

Then they will try to kick the tires on free agents like Jeff Garcia (and then decide NOT to use a west coast offense), RGIII, or Josh McCown. I don't mind the "Band Aid" approach to an extent, but they've only tried the Band Aid approach or the "tradeback"/"diamond in the rough" approach DOZENS of times.

It's time for them to step up to the podium in April with the FIRST OVERALL pick and do what needs to be done.

Unfortunately, I bet the NY Giants "blow them away" with a trade offer that they can't refuse. I've seen this story too many times. 

Call me in 2030, maybe they'll figure it out after 32 years.

[Forge]

4 hours ago, candyman93 said:

Some good news.

 

Current top-10 order of the 2018 NFL Draft: 1) #Browns 2) #Giants 3) #49ers 4) #Colts 5) #Browns (from HOU) 6) #Broncos 7) #Buccaneers 8) #Bears 9) #Bengals 10) #Jets

That's almost a lock to be Darnold (or whichever QB they prefer, though I think Darnold plays better in Cleveland then Rosen, and I don't view Jackson/Mayfield as worthy of the first overall pick) + Barkley, right? I still don't see the 49ers taking Barkley there, and I think the Colts may prefer someone like Chubb if the 49ers don't take him.  Trades are a possibility, but if either of those teams trade down, I have to imagine it's to a team that wants a quarterback (maybe the Jets). 

[AkronsWitness]

Sign Alex Smith and draft Sam Darnold. See? Fixed.

[RavensTillIDie]

There would honestly be nothing more lulzy than the Browns getting the #1 overall pick in one of the better QB heavy drafts of this past decade and opting not to select a QB or once again trading down in order to acquire more "draft capital".

Seriously though, given how the Texans are playing and depending on what teams like the 49ers, Colts, and Giants opt to do. If either of Rosen or Darnold are there at the Browns second pick, I'm drafting both QBs and letting them battle it out in the pre-season.

[AkronsWitness]

3 minutes ago, RavensTillIDie said:

There would honestly be nothing more lulzy than the Browns getting the #1 overall pick in one of the better QB heavy drafts of this past decade and opting not to select a QB or once again trading down in order to acquire more "draft capital".

Seriously though, given how the Texans are playing and depending on what teams like the 49ers, Colts, and Giants opt to do. If either of Rosen or Darnold are there at the Browns second pick, I'm drafting both QBs and letting them battle it out in the pre-season.

Its a QB heavy draft with no clear cut #1. There is no Winston, Luck, Newton type QB talent in this draft that stand head and shoulders above anybody else to make it a cant miss.

Its not that they wont take a QB that scares me, but more if they take the right one and dont miss evaluate.

Taking Blake Bortles #1 (Darnold lets say) just to have Matt Ryan go 3 picks later (Rosen lets say) is worse than just taking the best overall player (Bradley Chubb lets say)

[Hunter2_1]

Well, what I would do (a completely unqualified joe with no football managements experience outside of the Xbox) is draft an intelligent QB. Amazing as that sounds.

None of these shifty, running or ego QBs. Just one that you think can make the right decisions, set a protection and play a quick passing game. Baby steps. Simplify everything. Are there any QBs that can progress through reads, whilst not messing the bed, and who's not going to take off running if their first read isn't there? I don't know, but I'd going for captain simple yet smart. 

[RavensTillIDie]

Just now, AkronsWitness said:

Its a QB heavy draft with no clear cut #1. There is no Winston, Luck, Newton type QB talent in this draft that stand head and shoulders above anybody else to make it a cant miss.

Its not that they wont take a QB that scares me, but more if they take the right one and dont miss evaluate 

That's a fair point, but personally I don't think you can go wrong with either guy (Rosen or Darnold) in this situation. However, as Jared Goff has shown, scheme and coaching play just as much a role in a young quarterbacks development as anything else. Despite what your record may be at the end of the year, as long as you keep Hue as your coach and allow him to groom whichever quarterback you take, I think they'll be in good shape.

[AkronsWitness]

11 minutes ago, RavensTillIDie said:

That's a fair point, but personally I don't think you can go wrong with either guy (Rosen or Darnold) in this situation. However, as Jared Goff has shown, scheme and coaching play just as much a role in a young quarterbacks development as anything else. Despite what your record may be at the end of the year, as long as you keep Hue as your coach and allow him to groom whichever quarterback you take, I think they'll be in good shape.

Well thats the thing with the Goff comparison. Kizer currently looks just as good as Goff did as a rookie if not better. If you are confident he can develop with a full season of on job training under his belt and take that next step in 2018--then why draft one at all? I know he turned out to be a 2nd round pick but there was about 4 months of offseason where a lot of people had Kizer as the #1 prospect in the draft. So its not like he doesnt have some really good traits to build off of.

My worry is that this league now everybody wants microwaved success thanks to guys like Prescott/Watson who lit it up out the gate. Everybody is now only searching for those guys and not giving others a fair shake at development. Are we really going to just throw away Kizer who is the youngest QB in the NFL who now has had a full season of learning under his belt just because he didnt pull a Prescott/Watson?

If Goff is any example, its to put your faith in Kizer and hope with 2 offseasons, 1 full playing season of learning, he takes that Goff-like step next season while contuing to add elite prospects at skill positions (Like Garrett/Peppers/Njoku) to build the team around him.

Imagine sticking with Kizer, building around him and being able to add

Myles Garrett, Jabril Peppers, David Njoku, Bradley Chubb, Darius Guice and Denzel Ward in the process to your team

[Bonanza23]

4 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said:

Well thats the thing with the Goff comparison. Kizer currently looks just as good as Goff did as a rookie if not better. If you are confident he can develop with a full season of on job training under his belt and take that next step in 2018--then why draft one at all? I know he turned out to be a 2nd round pick but there was about 4 months of offseason where a lot of people had Kizer as the #1 prospect in the draft. So its not like he doesnt have some really good traits to build off of.

My worry is that this league now everybody wants microwaved success thanks to guys like Prescott/Watson who lit it up out the gate. Everybody is now only searching for those guys and not giving others a fair shake at development. Are we really going to just throw away Kizer who is the youngest QB in the NFL who now has had a full season of learning under his belt just because he didnt pull a Prescott/Watson?

Biggest difference is Goff looked really good in college and Kizer does the same stupid crap he did in college. There’s a really big reason a big athletic strong armed qb went in the second round,it’s because he’s not good/needs a ton of development. 

Give me Darnold and/or Rosen and bpa rest of the way and I’m good. I feel fairly confident we would finally have our qb. No more bull crap messing around. We’re finally in a good position to nab a top guy, pull the freaking trigger!!! If Kizer so happens to to be good? Trade him. (That is if the guy we draft is good)

I swear if the Browns fo had listened to us browns fans here at FF we wouldn’t be in this freaking mess.  

[Bonanza23]

23 minutes ago, RavensTillIDie said:

There would honestly be nothing more lulzy than the Browns getting the #1 overall pick in one of the better QB heavy drafts of this past decade and opting not to select a QB or once again trading down in order to acquire more "draft capital".

Seriously though, given how the Texans are playing and depending on what teams like the 49ers, Colts, and Giants opt to do. If either of Rosen or Darnold are there at the Browns second pick, I'm drafting both QBs and letting them battle it out in the pre-season.

We’ve talked about drafting two qb in the Browns forum. I’d be down. 

[RavensTillIDie]

3 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said:

Well thats the thing with the Goff comparison. Kizer currently looks just as good as Goff did as a rookie if not better. If you are confident he can develop with a full season of on job training under his belt and take that next step in 2018--then why draft one at all? I know he turned out to be a 2nd round pick but there was about 4 months of offseason where a lot of people had Kizer as the #1 prospect in the draft. So its not like he doesnt have some really good traits to build off of.

My worry is that this league now everybody wants microwaved success thanks to guys like Prescott/Watson who lit it up out the gate. Everybody is now only searching for those guys and not giving others a fair shake at development. Are we really going to just throw away Kizer who is the youngest QB in the NFL who now has had a full season of learning under his belt just because he didnt pull a Prescott/Watson?

That's not quite what I meant with that comparison. Goff looked horrendous under Fisher as the HC and hated running his outdated scheme. Hue is actually a pretty good QB coach, he's just been given some inferior talent to work with on the Browns. The Rams had a commitment to Goff as the 1st overall pick to put the pieces around him to make it succeed. I don't think there is any type of commitment like that with Kizer, especially given what he has shown this year.

And I think instant success does skew the timeline for a lot of young QBs, or I should say the lack of. However, it's one thing if the Browns had taken multiple top tier QBs in previous drafts and they failed and the Browns gave up on them without much patience. But that's not what the franchise has done. They've continuously tried to find hidden gems or use middling stop gap options and been disappointed. It's one thing to try and fail, but it's a whole 'nother to avoid trying due to the thought of potentially failing and STILL failing. Long story short, the Browns should have the #1 overall pick this year, don't screw it up by overthinking or worrying too much about the possibility of being wrong.

[candyman93]

THe difference between Goff and Kizer is that Kizer is a moron.

[everlong]

59 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said:

Its a QB heavy draft with no clear cut #1. There is no Winston, Luck, Newton type QB talent in this draft that stand head and shoulders above anybody else to make it a cant miss.

Its not that they wont take a QB that scares me, but more if they take the right one and dont miss evaluate.

Taking Blake Bortles #1 (Darnold lets say) just to have Matt Ryan go 3 picks later (Rosen lets say) is worse than just taking the best overall player (Bradley Chubb lets say)

The draft isn't a science. You guys need to pull the trigger with that first pick on the guyyou honestly believe is the QB That Was Promised.