big_palooka Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 6 minutes ago, Humble_Beast said: Dodds relationship with Harbaugh was the point of hiring him. No point if we hire Pierce The point of hiring him is he's a top notch player evaluator and has been a coveted guy for a GM role. He started his career with the Raiders and is said to want this job. The Harbaugh connection is simply them being on staff around the same time. There is no validity to them being a package deal. He's not interviewed in LA but Harbaugh has should tell you as much. It's a rumor fans ran with with last cycle that has continued. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 7 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said: I gotta agree. I like AP. I couldn't care less about Kelly, but if they're tied at the hip, whatever. But my stance has consistently been that AP deserves an interview and the nod if we miss out on the big prizes- which have mostly been Harbaugh and Johnson. Since then, we've seen some guys become available for a variety of reasons- surprise firings, coordinators who now may be gone due to a new HC, etc. If the best we did was Frazier and Richard, that's embarrassing and I can't really get behind it. It's one thing to swing and miss on the big fish. It's another to willingly play in the minnow pond just to keep people happy. For AP, he needs a good GM to help him succeed, and I don't think Kelly is that. Kelly would need a maestro coach to navigate what I suspect is pretty dodgy talent evaluations and being a relative newcomer to actual GM roles, and AP isn't that. Both, I suppose, have some potential to succeed, but I cannot see them succeeding together. Not long term. This feels like a totally avoidable ugly situation that we're going to willingly jump into just to avoid a little potential immediate backlash, which wouldn't matter in the grand scheme of things with a really good HC or GM or both. Dumb, dumb, dumb all around if this is the route we take. Especially the way we take it. Completely agree. Assuming this is the plan, then Davis is forced into another package deal situation with the two of them. Which seemed to be exactly what he didn't want this time around. Meaning, if it fails, he's right back to hiring both GM and HC once again. Do we trust that Kelly is not going to bend to AP's demands as that feels like the power dynamic that was forged with them in the interim status. I'd feel better hiring a GM with no organizational ties, give him AP if you must but allow the man roster control and ability to move on from AP if/when he chooses. This is all feeling very muddy in terms of accountability, etc. from the FO down with this group. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tank4Drake Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 Mark is horrible at hiring GM’s and HC’s and is the reason this organization has failed over the past 12+ years. Usually when I say this I get bunch of Raider fans defending Mark “he’s a great owner, vegas blah blah”. Vegas was a great move but like I said, the guy can’t hire a GM/HC to save his life and will keep failing over and over and over. He doesn’t have the mind for it like Al did. Al would hire the next young innovator who hasn’t been HC yet. I can almost assure you Al wouldn’t keep AP and would hire either Ben Johnson or Bobby Slowik. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chali21 Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 I really think this has a lot to do with Bisaccia and the successes that Ryans and Campbell have had in the first round of playoffs. They tried to go with the wunderkin offensive guy but it failed twice. I’m with BP this better work or else the stadium is going to be filled with opposing colors halfway through the season again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaidersAreOne Posted January 17 Author Share Posted January 17 I'm very interested to see the numbers AP and Kelly get. Of course they want security but I would be pretty surprised if AP was expensive relative to other HCs. He's so green to the role. If he truly does fail and we need to move on in 1-2 seasons, it's not like financials should be a reasoning to keep him like it was with Gruden and JMD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chali21 Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 4 minutes ago, Tank4Drake said: Mark is horrible at hiring GM’s and HC’s and is the reason this organization has failed over the past 12+ years. Usually when I say this I get bunch of Raider fans defending Mark “he’s a great owner, vegas blah blah”. Vegas was a great move but like I said, the guy can’t hire a GM/HC to save his life and will keep failing over and over and over. He doesn’t have the mind for it like Al did. Al would hire the next young innovator who hasn’t been HC yet. I can almost assure you Al wouldn’t keep AP and would hire either Ben Johnson or Bobby Slowik. Al hired Madden and Flores who were pretty much the exact same as AP. When he tried to hire the next young innovator he’d run them out of town i.e. Shanahan and Gruden. Cable was another guy who was rah rah and he replaced him with hue jackson. I think Al would have kept AP and theres no way he would have hire Harbaugh. Although it would have been a 30 for 30 if he hired JMD. 😂 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chali21 Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 3 minutes ago, RaidersAreOne said: I'm very interested to see the numbers AP and Kelly get. Of course they want security but I would be pretty surprised if AP was expensive relative to other HCs. He's so green to the role. If he truly does fail and we need to move on in 1-2 seasons, it's not like financials should be a reasoning to keep him like it was with Gruden and JMD. It’s funny to think that in two seasons time we still wouldn’t reach the end of Gruden’s original contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightmare Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 2 minutes ago, RaidersAreOne said: I'm very interested to see the numbers AP and Kelly get. Of course they want security but I would be pretty surprised if AP was expensive relative to other HCs. He's so green to the role. If he truly does fail and we need to move on in 1-2 seasons, it's not like financials should be a reasoning to keep him like it was with Gruden and JMD. You're right, it's going to be a cheap hire, and one that's easy to get out of. But it's such a fundamental issue with how the Raiders are currently run by Mark Davis, that we're already talking about the "get out" clause for a guy we haven't even formally hired yet. Fwiw, it wouldn't surprise me at all if this doesn't work out and we're back here 2 years from now begging for Jim Harbaugh all over again (if he stays at Michigan yet again, which seems to be on the table). Such an uninspiring franchise, man. The names out there in this hiring cycle are unreal, and we've brought in Leslie Frazier and Kris Richard. Give me a f'n break. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaidersAreOne Posted January 17 Author Share Posted January 17 (edited) 1 minute ago, Chali21 said: It’s funny to think that in two seasons time we still wouldn’t reach the end of Gruden’s original contract. https://isgrudengoneyet.com/ The countdown clock that existed on this site was hilariously painful. Edited January 17 by RaidersAreOne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tank4Drake Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 1 minute ago, Chali21 said: Al hired Madden and Flores who were pretty much the exact same as AP. When he tried to hire the next young innovator he’d run them out of town i.e. Shanahan and Gruden. Cable was another guy who was rah rah and he replaced him with hue jackson. I think Al would have kept AP and theres no way he would have hire Harbaugh. Although it would have been a 30 for 30 if he hired JMD. 😂 No way Al hires Harbaugh, 100% agree. He doesn’t like the big names and is too cheap. Disagree with everything else though. Al loved innovation. Madden was an innovator. And once Al got into the 90’s, he 100% looked for young innovative coaches, Gruden, Kiffin, Hue (not quite young, but innovative offense), etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickButera Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 11 minutes ago, Tank4Drake said: No way Al hires Harbaugh, 100% agree. He doesn’t like the big names and is too cheap. Disagree with everything else though. Al loved innovation. Madden was an innovator. And once Al got into the 90’s, he 100% looked for young innovative coaches, Gruden, Kiffin, Hue (not quite young, but innovative offense), etc. Have you read the Al Davis book? He tried hard to keep Harbough from ever leaving the Raiders when he got an offer for SDSU. He was grooming him up. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tank4Drake Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 Just now, NickButera said: Have you read the Al Davis book? He tried hard to keep Harbough from ever leaving the Raiders when he got an offer for SDSU. He was grooming him up. That was literally before Harbaugh became a big coaching name, no way Al hires him now and shells out all that cash. Also proves my point Al has a great eye for young innovators, and spotting it before anyone else. Mark doesn’t have the talent/eye for it. He’s not a football guy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darbsk Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 2 hours ago, bucksavage1 said: Looks like a Harbaugh is going back to Michigan Good, if we don’t get him I don’t want any other NFL team to 😂 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101Raider Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 3 minutes ago, Darbsk said: Good, if we don’t get him I don’t want any other NFL team to 😂 I was just worried about him with the Chargers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justwinbaby81 Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 48 minutes ago, Nightmare said: You're right, it's going to be a cheap hire, and one that's easy to get out of. But it's such a fundamental issue with how the Raiders are currently run by Mark Davis, that we're already talking about the "get out" clause for a guy we haven't even formally hired yet. Fwiw, it wouldn't surprise me at all if this doesn't work out and we're back here 2 years from now begging for Jim Harbaugh all over again (if he stays at Michigan yet again, which seems to be on the table). Such an uninspiring franchise, man. The names out there in this hiring cycle are unreal, and we've brought in Leslie Frazier and Kris Richard. Give me a f'n break. The only ones talking about a get out clause are the ones who don't want AP (yet still say they are "fine with it" and continue to whine about it). If this was Harbaugh we hired and we didn't interview anyone else, nobody would blink. And get over the Frazier/Richard interviews, that was going through the motions of the Rooney rule. You should know that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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