Who do you want to see as our next HC and GM?

[ronjon1990]

8 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

AP couldn't even convince HS kids to play for him, yet he is a leader of men, yeah buddy

I'm not even worried about his record as a HS coach. HS programs come and go and can be fickle. 

What worries me is that he doesn't act (and by act I mean perform the job, before anyone gets miffed) like someone who has been a HC at any level. Clock management being a big one. Decision making the other. 

Look at the last play before half on Sunday. What the hell? Did he not know a TO was called? Guys just left for the locker room? Then we go back out knowing we're all out of sorts AND ACTUALLY RUN A PLAY INSTEAD OF JIST KNEELING. Then, when we're not playing well,  instead of utilizing halftime to make adjustments, we're doing calisthenics on the field? 

Even a Pop Warner HC knows better than that. 

Edited December 12, 2023 by ronjon1990

[big_palooka]

1 hour ago, Justwinning said:

Nah bro. The bolded is why he sucks. Right @ronjon1990?

Don't waste your time. He can't be objective as you can see. 

Raiders have the 9th overall scoring defense, best since their 2002 Superbowl year. Doing it with Crosby and a bunch of Jags. That's on the back of good coaching. Graham, Leonard and Simmons in particular on that side.

They lack talent on each level and of course are going to get exposed by better QBs and teams. That's going to happen when you lack talent and depth. But to take away them beating down the QBs and teams they should is disingenuous. 

@ronjon1990's ego is simply to big to admit Graham can coach and doing a good job with one of the lowest paid units in the game. Get him some additional talent and there is no reason the unit can't continue to grow. You're lying to yourself to say otherwise or just to damn proud and can't humble yourself.  

[NYRaider]

50 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

Don't waste your time. He can't be objective as you can see. 

Raiders have the 9th overall scoring defense, best since their 2002 Superbowl year. Doing it with Crosby and a bunch of Jags. That's on the back of good coaching. Graham, Leonard and Simmons in particular on that side.

They lack talent on each level and of course are going to get exposed by better QBs and teams. That's going to happen when you lack talent and depth. But to take away them beating down the QBs and teams they should is disingenuous. 

@ronjon1990's ego is simply to big to admit Graham can coach and doing a good job with one of the lowest paid units in the game. Get him some additional talent and there is no reason the unit can't continue to grow. You're lying to yourself to say otherwise or just to damn proud and can't humble yourself.  

The crazy thing is too that we've really only been meh in two games, against the Bills and Chiefs. If you look at our other 13 games we've only allowed 14.6 ppg which would be best in the NFL. 

[ronjon1990]

1 hour ago, big_palooka said:

Don't waste your time. He can't be objective as you can see. 

Raiders have the 9th overall scoring defense, best since their 2002 Superbowl year. Doing it with Crosby and a bunch of Jags. That's on the back of good coaching. Graham, Leonard and Simmons in particular on that side.

They lack talent on each level and of course are going to get exposed by better QBs and teams. That's going to happen when you lack talent and depth. But to take away them beating down the QBs and teams they should is disingenuous. 

@ronjon1990's ego is simply to big to admit Graham can coach and doing a good job with one of the lowest paid units in the game. Get him some additional talent and there is no reason the unit can't continue to grow. You're lying to yourself to say otherwise or just to damn proud and can't humble yourself.  

So you're saying it's totally not objective to point out the quality of QB we've played against and how much of an anomaly it's been? That's the new hill you wanna die on? Seriously? Suit yourself. 

Just do me a favor- when Graham is back to heading up a bottom 5 D, don't turn coat on him the way you committed patricide with Josh. Ride that Graham shlong all the way like a man, aight?

Furthermore, nobody is saying they "can't" continue to grow, I'm saying they "won't" because Graham has never sustained success like that in the past. And spare the the "lowest paid" unit nonsense. If highest paid automatically means they should be good, examine our offense. We pay put the yazoo and some of our highest paid pieces straight up suck. 

Edited December 13, 2023 by ronjon1990

[ronjon1990]

29 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

The crazy thing is too that we've really only been meh in two games, against the Bills and Chiefs. If you look at our other 13 games we've only allowed 14.6 ppg which would be best in the NFL. 

The "other 13".....

Nah, let's be objective here and name the teams individually. And then let's talk about who didn't play. 

I mean, you name drop the Bills and Chiefs to make it seem like it's just part for the course because they're so highly regarded as teams with franchise QBs both in the leagues top 5. 

Why don't we name drop the Vikings with Josh Dobbs, Ty Chandler, no Justin Jefferson, and 4 reserve OL? Is it not impressive enough? 

Why don't we name drop the Giants with Tommy DeVito? An Aaron Rodgers-less Jets? Tyson Bagent and the high powered juggernaut Bears offense? We're gonna name drop Patty and Josh and their teams but just lump the rest as the "other 13"? 

[NYRaider]

The most important factor in our long term success will be finding and developing a QB. So assuming that we go QB early in the first I’d lean heavily into finding the right offensive minded coach to develop him. It’s all for naught if we don’t have a QB that can realistically compete with the Mahomes and Allen’s of the world going forward in the AFC.

[NYRaider]

My ideal outcome

GM - Champ Kelly

He's already in the building and that would allow us to keep some continuity, he seems to be highly regarded in league circles and IIRC we liked him during our GM search. Having a GM in place early that is already familiar with the roster would also go a long way in building the team and finding the right head coach.

HC - Frank Smith

One of the best offensive minds in football that has already worked with Kelly in the past during their time together in Chicago. A Gruden disciple that has been instrumental in helping Tua develop into one of the best QB in the NFL, would be great to mentor a young franchise QB.

OC - Darrell Bevell

The current QB coach in Miami that has worked with Smith and has been around the NFL for the last 15 years with 14 years as an OC. He has been an interim head coach with the Lions and Jaguars in the past which would be nice to have on the staff with such a young HC. He was the Vikings OC during the year they had one of the best offenses in football, has worked with Tua over the past two seasons as he has emerged, and was the OC for the Seahawks during Russell Wilson's first 7 seasons including their two Super Bowl runs. 

DC - Patrick Graham

The defense has outplayed expectations this year and he has proven to be a really good coach. We're currently 7th in DVOA per play and 9th in ppg allowed despite having one of the lowest paid units in the league. We just saw the Colts bring in a young offensive minded head coach that kept their defensive staff in place and I'd love to see us do the same. One of our biggest issues defensively has been the constant turnover with coaches that want their own guys to fit their scheme. Keep some continuity on the defensive staff and allow Graham to build on this season with some more talent that fit into what he wants to do.

[ronjon1990]

2 hours ago, NYRaider said:

The most important factor in our long term success will be finding and developing a QB. So assuming that we go QB early in the first I’d lean heavily into finding the right offensive minded coach to develop him. It’s all for naught if we don’t have a QB that can realistically compete with the Mahomes and Allen’s of the world going forward in the AFC.

Assuming QB is going to be our 1st pick since we're all pretty much in agreement it should be, the question becomes:

Is an offense oriented HC a must. 

I'm not sure myself. Our HC, whoever it is, needs to focus on the entire team. 

Say, for example, Ejiro Evero or some other highly regarded DC could somehow manage to bring in a Ben Johnson or Frank Smith (hypothetically speaking, of course), would that be more valuable than, say Smith or Johnson as HC rolling with a novice OC/QB coach like Hardigree, understanding that we'd probably lose them in a few years and hope that someone beneath them is prepped well to take over?

I'm cool with Johnson or Smith myself. Just thinking about other possibilities in the event we don't snag one if them as HC. 

[NYRaider]

1 minute ago, ronjon1990 said:

Assuming QB is going to be our 1st pick since we're all pretty much in agreement it should be, the question becomes:

Is an offense oriented HC a must. 

I'm not sure myself. Our HC, whoever it is, needs to focus on the entire team. 

Say, for example, Ejiro Evero or some other highly regarded DC could somehow manage to bring in a Ben Johnson or Frank Smith (hypothetically speaking, of course), would that be more valuable than, say Smith or Johnson as HC rolling with a novice OC/QB coach like Hardigree, understanding that we'd probably lose them in a few years and hope that someone beneath them is prepped well to take over?

I'm cool with Johnson or Smith myself. Just thinking about other possibilities in the event we don't snag one if them as HC. 

I think you want to give your young QB the best chance to succeed and that likely comes with an elite young offensive minded head coach to guide him. If you hire a defensive head coach you really have to hit it out of the park with your offensive staff which can be difficult because you're likely going to have a first time OC that is being promoted from a positional coaching role somewhere else in the league. 

[Justwinning]

5 hours ago, ronjon1990 said:

Nah, bro, the bolded is what has caused people to trick themselves into believing he hasn't historically sucked. 

Beating up on Tommy DeVitwho, Zach Hesitant, Josh VanS, Tyson Bagel, Kenny Pickles, and MacNCheese Jones would help any D look good.......and, hell, Graham only has us looking mid at best. 

Nearly half of our opponents have started QBs who aren't NFL starting QBs and most of whom are arguably not even true backup level QBs. We're about to play yet another one on Sunday. That won't happen again for a long long time. 

Anyone who wants to toot their horn and ignore the context of why we even look middle of the road can go ahead and do so. Bask in it. Relish it. Rub their nipples with the knowledge that in 2023, Patrick Graham fielded an NFL middle of the road D and ignore that almost half of the teams we played were playing reserve scrubs. 

Because if he's back in 2024, we will be bottom of the barrel again, and I will go on another "I told you so" warpath. 

Patrick Graham is a solid defensive coordinator. Get over it.

[jpaulthe1st]

1 hour ago, NYRaider said:

My ideal outcome

GM - Champ Kelly

He's already in the building and that would allow us to keep some continuity, he seems to be highly regarded in league circles and IIRC we liked him during our GM search. Having a GM in place early that is already familiar with the roster would also go a long way in building the team and finding the right head coach.

HC - Frank Smith

One of the best offensive minds in football that has already worked with Kelly in the past during their time together in Chicago. A Gruden disciple that has been instrumental in helping Tua develop into one of the best QB in the NFL, would be great to mentor a young franchise QB.

OC - Darrell Bevell

The current QB coach in Miami that has worked with Smith and has been around the NFL for the last 15 years with 14 years as an OC. He has been an interim head coach with the Lions and Jaguars in the past which would be nice to have on the staff with such a young HC. He was the Vikings OC during the year they had one of the best offenses in football, has worked with Tua over the past two seasons as he has emerged, and was the OC for the Seahawks during Russell Wilson's first 7 seasons including their two Super Bowl runs. 

DC - Patrick Graham

The defense has outplayed expectations this year and he has proven to be a really good coach. We're currently 7th in DVOA per play and 9th in ppg allowed despite having one of the lowest paid units in the league. We just saw the Colts bring in a young offensive minded head coach that kept their defensive staff in place and I'd love to see us do the same. One of our biggest issues defensively has been the constant turnover with coaches that want their own guys to fit their scheme. Keep some continuity on the defensive staff and allow Graham to build on this season with some more talent that fit into what he wants to do.

Where do I sign? 

[Justwinning]

1 hour ago, NYRaider said:

My ideal outcome

GM - Champ Kelly

He's already in the building and that would allow us to keep some continuity, he seems to be highly regarded in league circles and IIRC we liked him during our GM search. Having a GM in place early that is already familiar with the roster would also go a long way in building the team and finding the right head coach.

HC - Frank Smith

One of the best offensive minds in football that has already worked with Kelly in the past during their time together in Chicago. A Gruden disciple that has been instrumental in helping Tua develop into one of the best QB in the NFL, would be great to mentor a young franchise QB.

OC - Darrell Bevell

The current QB coach in Miami that has worked with Smith and has been around the NFL for the last 15 years with 14 years as an OC. He has been an interim head coach with the Lions and Jaguars in the past which would be nice to have on the staff with such a young HC. He was the Vikings OC during the year they had one of the best offenses in football, has worked with Tua over the past two seasons as he has emerged, and was the OC for the Seahawks during Russell Wilson's first 7 seasons including their two Super Bowl runs. 

DC - Patrick Graham

The defense has outplayed expectations this year and he has proven to be a really good coach. We're currently 7th in DVOA per play and 9th in ppg allowed despite having one of the lowest paid units in the league. We just saw the Colts bring in a young offensive minded head coach that kept their defensive staff in place and I'd love to see us do the same. One of our biggest issues defensively has been the constant turnover with coaches that want their own guys to fit their scheme. Keep some continuity on the defensive staff and allow Graham to build on this season with some more talent that fit into what he wants to do.

Sign me up for this.

[ronjon1990]

12 minutes ago, Justwinning said:

Patrick Graham is a solid defensive coordinator. Get over it.

Based on what objective metric, exactly? 

[Styrian Raider]

3 hours ago, ronjon1990 said:

Assuming QB is going to be our 1st pick since we're all pretty much in agreement it should be, the question becomes:

Is an offense oriented HC a must. 

I'm not sure myself. Our HC, whoever it is, needs to focus on the entire team. 

Say, for example, Ejiro Evero or some other highly regarded DC could somehow manage to bring in a Ben Johnson or Frank Smith (hypothetically speaking, of course), would that be more valuable than, say Smith or Johnson as HC rolling with a novice OC/QB coach like Hardigree, understanding that we'd probably lose them in a few years and hope that someone beneath them is prepped well to take over?

I'm cool with Johnson or Smith myself. Just thinking about other possibilities in the event we don't snag one if them as HC. 

I think both defense or offense oriented headcoaches could work. If you find the right one.
Looking at the steelers who are always competitive almost regardless who is under center or OC.

[NJ Raider]

When JMD and Mick were fired, I was expecting Bennett to get the interim HC or OC job. I get that AP and Bo were friendly, but wouldn't it have made sense to go with someone who has actually called plays? I'm all about young, innovative offensive minds, but Bennett was the obvious choice. The Bills even brought him in for an interview for their OC job after Daboll left. This move could be one of the reasons Pierce doesn't get the full-time gig. I'm not saying Bennett would have us dropping 30 a week, but I doubt it would have been worse than this.