Ward4HOF Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 I think this season has put the nail in the proverbial 'coffin' in regards to Brown's Legacy. Assuming Brown stays healthy enough to collect another 12 receptions, 204 yards, and a TD, that puts this season at 100 Rec / 1500 yds / 10 TDs , and IMO, locks him in for his 4th straight AP 1st Team All Pro. Even if he gets a 2nd Team All-Pro, it would be his 2nd of those, and 5 straight years earning a 1st or 2nd Team All-Pro. And unless he completely falls off the face of the planet, he'll reach 10000 yds early next season (if not this season). Aside from that, he has his 5/50 streak (remember, Hall of FAME...not stats/records, so this was something that was tracked publicly for some time). He also was the first player to ever have the 1000/1000 return/receiving yds season in 2011. He's been at the top of the NFL WR class for a few years...aside from what some Falcon fans think...and to them the below... ...but the point is, he has been at the top of his position, arguably, for the past 3-4 years. At some point, he will regress (or Ben will retire...or both), which is why I hope he finishes this year off strong, gets that 4th 1st Tm All-Pro. If he does that, he's a shoe in, but if he doesn't, and let's say he gets a 2nd Team All-Pro, then age catches up to him, and he slowly fades. Maybe the next 2-3 years he puts up 900-1100 yd seasons with 6-8 TDs...then has that last season where he's like 500 yds, 2 TDs, etc. and finishes with, say, 13500 yds, 80 TDs...or maybe even lower, but he's got those 4 x 1st Tm All-Pros...does he get in? I think he does, but as with many WRs, it will likely take 20 years. If he continues on his current pace for this year, plus another year or two, he'll likely be 1st Ballot, because no WR will have done what he has since Jerry Rice, and gotten 4 consecutive 1st Tm All-Pros, and only Terrell Owens has 5 as of recent times (WRs, that is...). So, what's the verdict...has he earned it yet? Does it matter whether he gets a 4th 1st Tm AP All-Pro this season? Does he need something else in your opinion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLambert58 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 Not yet, but he is well on his way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ward4HOF Posted December 10, 2017 Author Share Posted December 10, 2017 10 minutes ago, JLambert58 said: Not yet, but he is well on his way. So, what does that mean? If, for instance, he had a career ending injury, heaven forbid, like Shazier...you don't think he'd get in based upon his current accolades? I present Exhibit A - Terrell Davis. Yes, he had a phenomenal Playoff record and led his position for a few years, but not the career totals. Exhibit B - Earl Thomas. Also phenomenal player for a short period, but his career totals were lacking. I know they are RBs, not WRs, but the premise is the same. I could also present Calvin Johnson. He has a couple more thousand yards than AB, and more TDs, but no Playoff record to speak of--just the best WR for 3-4 year straight, and I doubt anyone believes he won't get in. So, what more does he need than this season? Is he in with 4 1st Tm All-Pros...something that hasn't been done since Rice? I believe so. Without that, it's murky. a 2nd, 2nd Tm All-Pro is nice, but doesn't hold the same weight, because, well, you weren;t at the top of you position...you were 2nd. So if someone surpasses him this year for that honor, I agree with you. He still has work to do. If not, and he get's his 4th straight 1st Tm All-Pro??? It's done. He's in, as far as I'm concerned, because that's the first thing brought up in the discussion...he led his position 4 year straight. That's not easy to do... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLambert58 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 Art Monk was very high on the receptions list when he retired (1st?) and had to wait for years to get into the HOF. Hines Ward is 14th in receptions and he will likely never get in. There are just so many WRs. If Ben & AB do their thing at a high level for 3+ years, he should be around where he needs to be imo based on being the best in the game for his era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xmad Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 No one is a lock for the HOF. Especially WRs nowadays with such a logjam waiting to get in... AB is HOF worthy but he needs a few more years to guarantee it because everybody likes bulky stats. Hopefully Ben retires and it's revealed Brown is nothing more than a production of Ben forcing it to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLambert58 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 15 minutes ago, OleXmad said: No one is a lock for the HOF. Especially WRs nowadays with such a logjam waiting to get in... AB is HOF worthy but he needs a few more years to guarantee it because everybody likes bulky stats. Hopefully Ben retires and it's revealed Brown is nothing more than a production of Ben forcing it to him. AB's stats aren't that good without Ben. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
43M Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 10 hours ago, JLambert58 said: AB's stats aren't that good without Ben. They arent that bad, either. He averaged 68.2 yards a game and 4.8 catches over the 5 games Ben missed in 2015 and 2016. Thats 77 catches for 1091 over 16 games with the likes of Landry Jones and Mike Vick, and they were playing cold. If they were actually practicing week in and week out with Brown, they would develop a chemistry with him and those stats would go up, most likely. Put a QB like Josh McCown under center with an entire offseason training with Brown, and I still think Brown would be getting 1300-1400 yards. Ben and Brown have a special connection and rapport. Both are great players that can survive without each other, but they are simply better WITH each other. As for Brown in the HoF....he is currently 50th all time receiving and he isnt even 30 yet. If he averages over 100 yards over the last 3 games, he will have 10,000 yards before his 30th birthday. With his work ethic and play style, if he stays healthy, I could see him playing at a high level until he is 36 or 37, but even if he only averages 1000 yards per season for the remainder of his existing contract (2018-2021), he would still be top 15 all time receiving yards by that point, and I think its safe to say that, if healthy, he will average more than that and play beyond that. Ill honestly be shocked if he isnt top 5 all time receiving yards when he is done, and perhaps even 2 behind Rice. So, is Antonio a HOF? If he were to suffer a career ending injury next week (god forbid), yes, he would get in. If he just retired after the season because he didnt love the game anymore? It would be a toss up, but he would still be in the convo. But as stated, there is a backlog of WRs waiting to get in and Antonio probably needs a bit more to really cement it. However, something crazy would have to happen for him not to get to at least 14000 receiving yards and I honestly expect him to go beyond that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDSteeler1971 Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 12 hours ago, JLambert58 said: AB's stats aren't that good without Ben. Neither are the QBs that were throwing to him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDSteeler1971 Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 15 hours ago, JLambert58 said: Art Monk was very high on the receptions list when he retired (1st?) and had to wait for years to get into the HOF. Hines Ward is 14th in receptions and he will likely never get in. There are just so many WRs. If Ben & AB do their thing at a high level for 3+ years, he should be around where he needs to be imo based on being the best in the game for his era. Actually Art Monk was the leading receiver all time when he retired and was screwed over for years... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ward4HOF Posted December 11, 2017 Author Share Posted December 11, 2017 8 minutes ago, MDSteeler1971 said: Neither are the QBs that were throwing to him! And that's the thing; yes, Brown benefits from having Ben as his QB, but put him with a 'pass happy' QB like Stafford or Brees, and he'd likely have even higher stats. Take Ryan away from Julio and let's see how good he is. Take Montana/Young away from Rice and see how good he is. You can say that about any productive WR...Moss/Culpepper...Harrison/Manning... ...and speaking of Harrison, he got in 1st Ballot, right? Why? Because 3 x 1st All-Pros and to 10 in TDs, Rec, and Yds. No, AB isn't near that yet, but it will be quick with Rec/Yds...he just needs 340 receptions and 4500 yds and he'll be top 10 in both. TDs is a different story, but not critical. After last night, he SHOULD get a 1st Tm All-Pro...it'll be tough for 2 WRs to 'out ydg him' in 3 games when he's ahead of the next closest by 276 yds, and he has 9 TDs, which will 'hold up' as well, so that's 4 straight 1st Tm All-Pros. I can't see how he isn't LOCK the second that 1st Tm All-Pro is announced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rivers Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 if ben retires, we will see what happens with AB's stats, I doubt he gets 100+ catches a year still. Then of course injuries could occur, but if everything is even decent, he should be a lock. This 6th round pick was much better than many of our 1st and 2nd round picks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August4th Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 that holmes trade was a blessing... don't think we draft two wideouts in 2010 with holmes on the roster.. so no brown in the 6th round although I do think holmes would of made a difference in SB45 .. he was clutch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rivers Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 3 hours ago, August4th said: that holmes trade was a blessing... don't think we draft two wideouts in 2010 with holmes on the roster.. so no brown in the 6th round although I do think holmes would of made a difference in SB45 .. he was clutch our OL failed in sb45 , ben was off for a bit as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ward4HOF Posted December 11, 2017 Author Share Posted December 11, 2017 8 hours ago, 3rivers said: if ben retires, we will see what happens with AB's stats, I doubt he gets 100+ catches a year still. Then of course injuries could occur, but if everything is even decent, he should be a lock. This 6th round pick was much better than many of our 1st and 2nd round picks You could also say Ben doesn't average 295 yds/stt since 2013, or becomes the first QB with three 500 yds gms, or B2B TD games without AB...Chicken/Egg argument. If what AB has done has been all on Ben, how come ever WR hasn't had AB's success? The bottom line is, AB's work-ethic made AB, and having Ben helped him to realize his success, but Ben doesn't get open down field; that's all AB. IMO, AB has at least 2 x 100 Rec seasons with at least a dozen other NFL QBs--Ryan, Stafford, Brees, Brady, Rodgers, Wilson, Luck (when healthy), Rivers, Eli, Dalton, Smith, Flacco--over the past 4 years. I'm not saying he would be this successful, but them all, but he'd still be wildly successful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ward4HOF Posted January 5, 2018 Author Share Posted January 5, 2018 It's official. He's a lock. 4th straight AP 1st Team All Pro. No other WR since the great one has accomplished this feat...and yes, it is that big of a deal, since it objectively marks him as the best WR in the NFL ( or 2nd best, but I think we know better.) Off-topic?? Good to see Can Heyward FINALLY get his due with his selection as 1st team All Pro as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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