SimonGruber Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 7 minutes ago, RaidersAreOne said: I wish we paid Mack last off season rather than Carr. No 5th year option right ? It is what it is. During a telecast it was said the advice David Carr gave Derek “ protect yourself “. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chali21 Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 7 minutes ago, RaidersAreOne said: I wish we paid Mack last off season rather than Carr. They couldn’t, also theres no way that people knew Carr would regress. He improved every year, Downing was supposed to be a better Musgrave, they where bringing back most of the offense with some improvements. It was a sound investment at the time and besides if he played halfway decent some team would pay him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazer026 Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 Sean Smith seems to be playing much better these last few games. And I'm not a fan of Downing, but Carr didn't help him out much today. He missed a lot of throws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darbsk Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 Understandably a lot of negatives here but there were a few positives for me aswell: The Good I think we may have found our DC - varied playcalls, creative blitzes especially with Bowman and decent pressure, the DBs are also playing better Mack/Irvin - look like a very good pair of edge rushers actually working in tandem not individually, Irvin has had a new lease of life under Pagano Sean Smith - we've given this guy lots of deserved criticism here but he played well, got physical and was probably our best DB Marshawn Lynch - simply superb, this guy just breaks tackles and creates things, we didn't use him nearly enough and on his TD the KC safeties looked like junior school kids trying to tackle a man Jared Cook - simply our only reliable receiving option in this game, great FA signing Run Defence - it's been criticised for letting Hunt get 100 yards, but IMHO that was more to do with KC having the ball for what felt like 50 minutes, we kept the big plays down and limited the effectiveness but just couldn't keep it up all game due to the O continuously giving KC the ball back, Bowman was a real presence here John Pagano - what a difference a new DC makes, we were far from perfect of course but we challenged Smith, created pressure, limited the big plays, got an interception and did enough for us to win it if our O wasn't in reverse gear Refs - we criticise them when they're bad quick enough so they deserve praise when they have a good game The Bad Substitutions - was it just me or whenever a guy made a decent play he was instantly on the sideline resting up?!?!?!? Keep our best players out there until they're actually gassed Carr - looked shaky and bereft of confidence, throws were erratic and panicky and clearly there was some kind of disconnect as he was unusually animated and annoyed and he played like it. The commentators commended him for getting rid of the ball in 2.2 seconds or something but that is more a symptom of the terrible play calls and lack of confidence to stay in the pocket and let the play develop IMO Marshall Newhouse - while I don't think the pass blocking was bad overall and Carr usually had time it seemed that he was terrified, especially his right hand side and paranoid to get the ball out quick, Newhouse struggled but Carr showed little pocket awareness Dexter McDonald - I remember him literally playing 12 yards off Hill on a third and 16 giving up an easy first down, he just seemed terrified of his speed all night and on another third down made what can only be described as an embarrasing attempt to hug the receiver short of the sticks only to fall over pathetically and give up an easy first down. Thought he struggled all night Marquette King - poorest I can remember him punting, lots of ugly and short punts, I think Hill got in his head in the return game WR Core - Crabtree was hit and miss, made some nice grabs when the game was out of reach but nothing when we actually needed it and seemed distracted, Holton is a fumble or tipped interception waiting to happen and Roberts was anonymous until the last 2 minutes, Patterson was so misused he was just a passenger and unfortunately Coop was injured (though he didn't exactly look dynamic prior to that either). We'll need to add to this over the off-season Interior Pressure - While they didn't play terribly, nearly all the pressure we generated came from Mack/Irvin or a blitz. Edwards left the game early but neither he nor any of the other internal guys I can recall pressured or even hit the QB. This is the missing ingredient I feel to take our D to a higher level Clock Management - lackadaisical is the only way I could describe our final drive, players uncoordinated, 5 yard routes to the middle of the field, Seth Roberts jogging round for 5 seconds with the clock running after he'd been downed.............just amateur The Ugly Todd Downing - this was amateur hour play calling, I'm certainly no defensive expert but I knew what play was coming up most of the night and if I did, sure as hell the chiefs did! Poorly timed bubble screens, obvious draw plays, 5 yard crossing routes, no playaction and no real inventiveness to get Patterson involved would have been bad enough but why, oh why not run Lynch down their throats when it was clear to anyone that they couldn't contain him or challenge the chiefs secondary when it's depleted of their two best players?!?!?!? I honestly think there's half a dozen guys on this board who could have called a better offence last night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaiderX Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 8 hours ago, Silver&Black88 said: Agree with all of you. I'll be sick if we bring back JDR. I mean, if it works then great.....but I don't feel like it will. Other thing is I don't even know who I'd want as a replacement. (inb4 someone says retread Pat Shrumur) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich7sena Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 Are we really going to question why we paid Carr that money? Are we really going to give up on him already? Fans are the worst part of sports and this thread is an example why. Derek Carr is having a bad year after 3 STRAIGHT YEARS OF PROGRESSION and now we want to bury him. If this were the thinking in the front office then they'd give us what we deserve: a return back to the good ole' days of late Al Davis. You give a fanbase even a modicum of success and they think it's a birthright. Winning -- consistent winning -- takes time and the Raiders aren't there yet, but they're close. Derek Carr has been part of the problem this year but he's part of the solution long term. Give me him at his contract over Khalil Mack 10/10 times because guess what? He's been great and the defense is still bad. Either way Mack is signing long term because he's clear he wants to be a part of this team and this team wants to pay him. End of the day, Carr is going to remain the quarterback for the foreseeable future and I'm excited about that. I'm happy the team has good bones to build off of and a few changes here and there could swing this team back to the playoffs. Ultimately, the process takes prudence and confidence in a long term vision, and burying players who got the team this far isn't the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 Team just need better coaching. Period. JDR just isn't the man for this job. He's a high level coordinator, not a HC and it's more and more apparent with each loss. Also... Reggie McKenzie needs to get it together, period. He's got some extra leash because of the 2014 class, but Davis needs to put him on notice here. He's failed miserably year over year to address major needs at DT and LB. We want to praise him for finding what some call late round gems, but this roster lacks a lot of talent and depth. The depth on this team is atrocious. On Carr..... he needs a coach who can get his confidence up early with good play structure. His play erratic and pressing because things are not working on the play calls. He reminds me of an early Matt Ryan right now. He's scared to use his feet, which leave a lot on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darbsk Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 47 minutes ago, big_palooka said: Team just need better coaching. Period. JDR just isn't the man for this job. He's a high level coordinator, not a HC and it's more and more apparent with each loss. Also... Reggie McKenzie needs to get it together, period. He's got some extra leash because of the 2014 class, but Davis needs to put him on notice here. He's failed miserably year over year to address major needs at DT and LB. We want to praise him for finding what some call late round gems, but this roster lacks a lot of talent and depth. The depth on this team is atrocious. On Carr..... he needs a coach who can get his confidence up early with good play structure. His play erratic and pressing because things are not working on the play calls. He reminds me of an early Matt Ryan right now. He's scared to use his feet, which leave a lot on the field. Agree with most of this BP but have to say I'm kind of polar opposite on Jack Del Rio, in that I think he's a good leader and motivator and will back his players as HC which they respect but he's not an X's and O's type of guy as a coordinator and not technically very innovative, therefore, I'm fine with him being here as HC so long as we've got guys at coordinator who can scheme well and call plays so long as he lets them do just that. When we had a guy at OC who was a savvy, experienced OC we did very well last year and as far as I can see now we've got a guy at DC who's a little more experienced and technical in Pagano we're doing much better on D. We need IMHO to marry those types of coordinators to the more players focused Jack Del Rio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakdb36 Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 3 hours ago, Rich7sena said: Are we really going to question why we paid Carr that money? Yes. He's paid to produce. The results since he got his contract aren't good enough. We're not winning games, the offense is below average and his stats are nowhere near the elite tier of QBs. He has to play a lot better to live up to his contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chali21 Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 36 minutes ago, oakdb36 said: Yes. He's paid to produce. The results since he got his contract aren't good enough. We're not winning games, the offense is below average and his stats are nowhere near the elite tier of QBs. He has to play a lot better to live up to his contract. Yeah sometimes that happens when you switch OCs. But most successful QBs have the same coordinators thier entire Career. When there’s a change even if the OC is a good one there’s usually a dip. But like you said he isn’t playing up to his contract. Nothing the team can really do about it. They can’t cut him they can only try to make it work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OakRaiders3828 Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 Same can be said for a lot of QBs. Fact is, when you have a franchise QB, you don't let him go and Carr proved to be just that. Not many QBs in the league can go 12-4 with a bottom 3 defense and a receiving core that leads the league in drops. Carr isn't elite (yet) but he is a franchise QB and deserved to be paid like one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chali21 Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 Also I'm to blame. I woke up this morning to have coffee and i realized I didn't drink it yesterday in my raiders mug like the last two weeks. I screwed us all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakdb36 Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 7 minutes ago, OakRaiders3828 said: Carr isn't elite (yet) but he is a franchise QB and deserved to be paid like one. What's a franchise QB? Imo, the only QBs who should be labeled franchise are in the elite tier. So i'm curious how you define a franchise QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 58 minutes ago, oakdb36 said: What's a franchise QB? Imo, the only QBs who should be labeled franchise are in the elite tier. So i'm curious how you define a franchise QB. Pretty simple. A franchise QB is the QB your franchise is confident in building around. They are not working to replace him, he's entrenched as the starter. People throw the word "elite" around too often. These are human beings... there are highs and loans with any athletes just like any other profession. Instead of focusing on someone being "elite", let's focus on them being consistent. That's what you where you want players to be, consistent game over game. Mack is a consistent player. Rodney Hudson, is a consistent player. Carr has ups and downs like many QBs. But his ups outweigh his downs generally so far in his career. He's young, he'll learn to be more consistent. And eventually (one would hope) he'll have consistent coaching around him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OakRaiders3828 Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 1 hour ago, oakdb36 said: What's a franchise QB? Imo, the only QBs who should be labeled franchise are in the elite tier. So i'm curious how you define a franchise QB. Someone who gives you a chance to win year in and year out. Should guys like Stafford, Ryan, Luck and Rivers not be paid because they have had down seasons in the past? Should Kirk Cousins be one of the highest paid players in the NFL? Even Super bowl winners like Eli, Flacco and to an extent Drew Bree's have had off years. Proven QBs don't grow on trees. If every team only paid "elite" QBs, then only 2-3 QBs would ever get extensions. People pay these guys because it's the premier position in sports that few people can play successfully. Carr has proven that he can legit carry a team to the playoffs. That can't be forgotten based on one down year with a rookie OC. If you don't think coaching has a ton to do with a players success just ask Matt Ryan or Jared Goff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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