The bad, the ugly, the locked thread

[Humble_Beast]

All this Carr bashing is silly.. okay then go get an upgrade this offseason.. let’s see how easy finding an upgrade will be... Carr has broken bones in his back, reason why he really doesn’t want to get hit and is quick to throw the ball.. he shouldn’t be playing but trying to help the raiders win

[Chali21]

18 minutes ago, OakRaiders3828 said:

Someone who gives you a chance to win year in and year out. 

Should guys like Stafford, Ryan, Luck and Rivers not be paid because they have had down seasons in the past? Should Kirk Cousins be one of the highest paid players in the NFL? Even Super bowl winners like Eli, Flacco and to an extent Drew Bree's have had off years. 

Proven QBs don't grow on trees. If every team only paid "elite" QBs, then only 2-3 QBs would ever get extensions. People pay these guys because it's the premier position in sports that few people can play successfully. 

Carr has proven that he can legit carry a team to the playoffs. That can't be forgotten based on one down year with a rookie OC. If you don't think coaching has a ton to do with a players success just ask Matt Ryan or Jared Goff. 

 

 

Yeah look here's the thing if the Raiders where to cut today right now a handful of teams would line up to pay him franchise type money. Why? Because he has shown in the past that he can be a very good QB. I can say for an almost certainty that Hue Jackson would sign him. Hell the Jags would sign him and take him to the super bowl. Look around the league and you'll see teams really held back by QB play, the Browns, the Jags, the Cardinals, the Broncos. None of those teams have a franchise guy, and it really hurts them especially the Broncos and Jags who have the talent on both sides to be an elite team in the NFL.

 

There's a podcast called the Around the NFL Podcast and they have a thing called the Dalton line. Basically any team that has a QB that's better than Andy Dalton has a franchise QB and any team that doesn't, does not have a franchise guy. Carr got paid because of this line. Look at Kirk Cousins and the Redskins, they didn't give him a long term deal like they should have years ago and now he's driven his price way up, thanks to guys like Carr and Stafford being paid and in the open market Cousins will get paid a ton. The Redskins now have to compete with the likes of Cleveland and Jacksonville because they decided to wait. If the Raiders had decided to wait Carr would have been in a similar spot because the price on QBs goes up every year.

[big_palooka]

6 hours ago, Darbsk said:

 

Agree with most of this BP but have to say I'm kind of polar opposite on Jack Del Rio, in that I think he's a good leader and motivator and will back his players as HC which they respect but he's not an X's and O's type of guy as a coordinator and not technically very innovative, therefore, I'm fine with him being here as HC so long as we've got guys at coordinator who can scheme well and call plays so long as he lets them do just that. When we had a guy at OC who was a savvy, experienced OC we did very well last year and as far as I can see now we've got a guy at DC who's a little more experienced and technical in Pagano we're doing much better on D. We need IMHO to marry those types of coordinators to the more players focused Jack Del Rio.

Disagree with you a little. I think JDR is quick to point fingers when things are going bad. Maybe not directly, but some of his quotes are passive aggressive.

And my issue is if he will let his coaches coach. Felt like a lot of players came to the defense of KNJ as being held to JDRs standard defensively and running his bland defense.

[big_palooka]

25 minutes ago, Humble_Beast said:

All this Carr bashing is silly.. okay then go get an upgrade this offseason.. let’s see how easy finding an upgrade will be... Carr has broken bones in his back, reason why he really doesn’t want to get hit and is quick to throw the ball.. he shouldn’t be playing but trying to help the raiders win

This is 100% inaccurate. He's personally said his back is 100%, so just stop this narrative. 

[Humble_Beast]

19 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

This is 100% inaccurate. He's personally said his back is 100%, so just stop this narrative. 

Carr is in the same mold as Brett favre.. they are iron men and won’t admit to being hurt. Even if he said he was in pain, that would just open up targets for defensive players to hit him. How do you fully recover from broken bones in your back in just a few weeks 

[Rich7sena]

2 hours ago, oakdb36 said:

What's a franchise QB? Imo, the only QBs who should be labeled franchise are in the elite tier. So i'm curious how you define a franchise QB.

Based on your definition, there are only two franchise QBs in the league: Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers. A franchise QB is any player who projects to give their team a competitive edge at the position year after year over replacement level.

[MrOaktown_56]

1 hour ago, Humble_Beast said:

All this Carr bashing is silly.. okay then go get an upgrade this offseason.. let’s see how easy finding an upgrade will be... Carr has broken bones in his back, reason why he really doesn’t want to get hit and is quick to throw the ball.. he shouldn’t be playing but trying to help the raiders win

Pause this at 8:45 and look at the throw he puts on holton in double coverage. One of his best throws of the year and it's picked.

Romo is right. If the Raiders receivers can't make tough catches, we aren't gonna beat anyone.

[big_palooka]

37 minutes ago, Humble_Beast said:

Carr is in the same mold as Brett favre.. they are iron men and won’t admit to being hurt. Even if he said he was in pain, that would just open up targets for defensive players to hit him. How do you fully recover from broken bones in your back in just a few weeks 

I'm going to stop you right there. Don't ever compare Carr to Brett Favre who ranks #1 all time starting 321 NFL games. Brett Favre was the toughest SOB to ever play the QB position. Had no fear. Carr gets rattled easily. 

[big_palooka]

Some good analysis from Austin Gayle on his twitter feed:

https://twitter.com/AustinGayle_PFF

[NightTrainLane]

7 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

I'm going to stop you right there. Don't ever compare Carr to Brett Favre who ranks #1 all time starting 321 NFL games. Brett Favre was the toughest SOB to ever play the QB position. Had no fear. Carr gets rattled easily. 

I can put together a 15 min long highlight film of Farve getting the ball out quickly because of the pocket or getting scared and making poor throws. Just stop. You know the context he meant that comment.

[big_palooka]

Pretty much what we're all saying. Downing is a players coach. Carr needs someone who to lead him, not be his friend. I think that much is clear. 

[NightTrainLane]

3 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

Pretty much what we're all saying. Downing is a players coach. Carr needs someone who to lead him, not be his friend. I think that much is clear. 

That isn't clear at all. What clear is that it isn't working. We don't know the cause or the real dynamic of their relationship besides the one or two sentences ever said about it in the media  by them.

Taking into account the way he learned the game (studying with his brother since he was under 10 yrs old) and the relationship he had Dave Schramm, I think he needs someone highly knowledgeable and open to collaborate. Meaning Carr can't be the smartest person in the room but he has to be made to feel included and able to give input on the offense and translate the things he sees on the field into the gameplan. That is how he will be successful. In those parameters it's easy to see how it was believed that Downing and Carr together would be a good mix.

[SilverNBlackFan]

2 hours ago, Humble_Beast said:

All this Carr bashing is silly.. okay then go get an upgrade this offseason.. let’s see how easy finding an upgrade will be... Carr has broken bones in his back, reason why he really doesn’t want to get hit and is quick to throw the ball.. he shouldn’t be playing but trying to help the raiders win

Lol. There was a game a few weeks ago where Romo, who had the same injury as Carr, was calling the game. Jim Nantz asked Romo if Carr's back could still possibly be effecting Carr's play and Romo was quick to dispel that notion.

The back is not an issue. Carr is just playing like crap.

[Chali21]

18 minutes ago, NightTrainLane said:

That isn't clear at all. What clear is that it isn't working. We don't know the cause or the real dynamic of their relationship besides the one or two sentences ever said about it in the media  by them.

Taking into account the way he learned the game (studying with his brother since he was under 10 yrs old) and the relationship he had Dave Schramm, I think he needs someone highly knowledgeable and open to collaborate. Meaning Carr can't be the smartest person in the room but he has to be made to feel included and able to give input on the offense and translate the things he sees on the field into the gameplan. That is how he will be successful. In those parameters it's easy to see how it was believed that Downing and Carr together would be a good mix.

Yeah but it’s apparent that he’s trying to replicate his college offense. It’s okay to have elements of that but it seems like they are totally changing to it. I think Carr needs a OC to get in his face about things. He’s way too timid and he needs to get that mamba mentality back. I’m all for dirk keotter, he seems pretty intense and his offenses are really successful. 

[oakdb36]

1 hour ago, Rich7sena said:

Based on your definition, there are only two franchise QBs in the league: Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers. A franchise QB is any player who projects to give their team a competitive edge at the position year after year over replacement level.

Ok. So it's just a pompous term to say above average.