The bad, the ugly, the locked thread

[SilverNBlackFan]

Just now, Chali21 said:

Yeah but it’s apparent that he’s trying to replicate his college offense. It’s okay to have elements of that but it seems like they are totally changing to it. I think Carr needs a OC to get in his face about things. He’s way too timid and he needs to get that mamba mentality back. I’m all for dirk keotter, he seems pretty intense and his offenses are really successful. 

Carr has been coddled his whole career here. We built him the highest paid offensive line in the league. We signed and drafted him two very good receivers. We fired a guy he wasn't very friendly with (Musgrave) and hired his best buddy on the staff (Downing) as the OC. We let him have alot of input and freedom in this offense, added alot of elements from his college offense. Mark Davis is in love with Carr, and he has been given the keys to this franchise.

We need a coach who will come in here and demand respect from Carr. Not someone who tries to be his friend. A Jay Gruden type

[SilverNBlackFan]

1 hour ago, big_palooka said:

I'm going to stop you right there. Don't ever compare Carr to Brett Favre who ranks #1 all time starting 321 NFL games. Brett Favre was the toughest SOB to ever play the QB position. Had no fear. Carr gets rattled easily. 

+1

Carr can barely take a hit without lingering on the ground and we're comparing him to Farve!? Stawppit

[big_palooka]

14 minutes ago, SilverNBlackFan said:

Carr has been coddled his whole career here. We built him the highest paid offensive line in the league. We signed and drafted him two very good receivers. We fired a guy he wasn't very friendly with (Musgrave) and hired his best buddy on the staff (Downing) as the OC. We let him have alot of input and freedom in this offense, added alot of elements from his college offense. Mark Davis is in love with Carr, and he has been given the keys to this franchise.

We need a coach who will come in here and demand respect from Carr. Not someone who tries to be his friend. A Jay Gruden type

There's a name that could be available soon. Falling apart there in DC for him. 

Jack will likely hire someone he knows, likes and trusts. I don't think he will look too far outside his sphere of influence for a coordinator. Koetter (if let go) or McCoy are almost too easy to predict. 

[Nodisrespect]

41 minutes ago, oakdb36 said:

Ok. So it's just a pompous term to say above average.

Basically, lol. I never thought of it like that. 

[Nodisrespect]

1 hour ago, big_palooka said:

I'm going to stop you right there. Don't ever compare Carr to Brett Favre who ranks #1 all time starting 321 NFL games. Brett Favre was the toughest SOB to ever play the QB position. Had no fear. Carr gets rattled easily. 

Agreed, that post is hilarious, "ironmen" lmfao.

Farve was a throwback who could take a whipping and still put out. If the weather is a little cold Carr is affected.

[NightTrainLane]

45 minutes ago, Chali21 said:

Yeah but it’s apparent that he’s trying to replicate his college offense. It’s okay to have elements of that but it seems like they are totally changing to it.

That isn't a bad thing when you look at the success they had in 2014-2015 with Carr.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/fresno-state/2013.html

55 minutes ago, Chali21 said:

I think Carr needs a OC to get in his face about things. He’s way too timid and he needs to get that mamba mentality back. I’m all for dirk keotter, he seems pretty intense and his offenses are really successful. 

We have no idea if Downing isn't already doing that and the reason why Derek likes him is because he is challenged. We are just making assumptions that could be way or alittle off.

But as for Koetter, I can see him as a fit because he runs a similar offense to what Schramm ran at Fresno St. Koetter's 4 verticals offense(https://www.bucsnation.com/2015/6/12/8774753/getting-to-know-koetters-new-buccaneers-playbook-the-4-vertical) is effective but can get figured out if the defense has the right personal. It requires safeties to make a lot of judgement calls and then tries to take advantage of their choices.

[Darbsk]

3 hours ago, big_palooka said:

9 hours ago, Darbsk said:

 

Agree with most of this BP but have to say I'm kind of polar opposite on Jack Del Rio, in that I think he's a good leader and motivator and will back his players as HC which they respect but he's not an X's and O's type of guy as a coordinator and not technically very innovative, therefore, I'm fine with him being here as HC so long as we've got guys at coordinator who can scheme well and call plays so long as he lets them do just that. When we had a guy at OC who was a savvy, experienced OC we did very well last year and as far as I can see now we've got a guy at DC who's a little more experienced and technical in Pagano we're doing much better on D. We need IMHO to marry those types of coordinators to the more players focused Jack Del Rio.

Disagree with you a little. I think JDR is quick to point fingers when things are going bad. Maybe not directly, but some of his quotes are passive aggressive.

And my issue is if he will let his coaches coach. Felt like a lot of players came to the defense of KNJ as being held to JDRs standard defensively and running his bland defense.

 

That was one of my reservations aswell. However, the evidence seems to suggest he will let his coordinators change up things - Downing clearly has monumentally changed the offence that Bill Musgrave was running so he's allowed a rookie coordinator to call the plays and change things up which suggests he isn't a control freak like some suggest. Also, I feel like there have been changes whilst Pagano has been in charge of the defence with an emphasis on Irvin and Mack rushing the passer, Sean Smith playing more press and nice blitzes for Bowman and others although it's obviously not possible for him to change too much 2/3 of the way into the season so I do feel he's shown he's not rigid to the same system.

[Nightmare]

2 hours ago, big_palooka said:

There's a name that could be available soon. Falling apart there in DC for him. 

Jack will likely hire someone he knows, likes and trusts. I don't think he will look too far outside his sphere of influence for a coordinator. Koetter (if let go) or McCoy are almost too easy to predict. 

Those are decent enough names to be linked with, as well. Solid, if unspectacular potential hires. A bit like Musgrave, I guess, with certain limitations, but either would be an obvious upgrade at this point.

[big_palooka]

FWIW:

 

 

[NightTrainLane]

8 hours ago, Chali21 said:

Yeah but it’s apparent that he’s trying to replicate his college offense. It’s okay to have elements of that but it seems like they are totally changing to it. I think Carr needs a OC to get in his face about things. He’s way too timid and he needs to get that mamba mentality back. I’m all for dirk keotter, he seems pretty intense and his offenses are really successful. 

 

[Chali21]

30 minutes ago, NightTrainLane said:

 

Yeah, however if something isn’t working you adjust. They should have made changes to the offense in the bye or after the Patriots game today is too late.  Someone in this offense is being stubborn either it’s Downing not wanting to change or it’s Carr and Downing is enabling him. Either way changes have to be made. 

 

Look i can’t say for certain that Downing doesn’t push Carr because i don’t know. But honestly no one on these forums know so we just have to say what we think and with what I’ve heard is that Musgrave was ditched because Carr didn’t like him but he liked Downing. The organization liked Downing as well and feared he might take an OC job somewhere else. So Downing becam the guy without any sort of guidance so now here we are watching a team that is 6-7 rolling to oblivion. 

[NightTrainLane]

2 hours ago, Chali21 said:

Yeah, however if something isn’t working you adjust. They should have made changes to the offense in the bye or after the Patriots game today is too late.  Someone in this offense is being stubborn either it’s Downing not wanting to change or it’s Carr and Downing is enabling him. Either way changes have to be made. 

 

Look i can’t say for certain that Downing doesn’t push Carr because i don’t know. But honestly no one on these forums know so we just have to say what we think and with what I’ve heard is that Musgrave was ditched because Carr didn’t like him but he liked Downing. The organization liked Downing as well and feared he might take an OC job somewhere else. So Downing becam the guy without any sort of guidance so now here we are watching a team that is 6-7 rolling to oblivion. 

But they do make adjustments game to game. That you think they don't is...I don't know.

The convo is going no where.

[Chali21]

13 hours ago, NightTrainLane said:

But they do make adjustments game to game. That you think they don't is...I don't know.

The convo is going no where.

Sure, the first time they played the Chiefs they worked the slot, then they stopped doing that and went back to the 5 wide spread offense. There where many times they could have done that but they didn't its five wide short passes or bust. In KC they started to have success when Carr worked the slot, when they adjusted IN THE END OF THE 3RD QUARTER, at that point the game was over and they couldn't comeback. Before they played the Patriots everyone said they needed to work the slot, once again they tried the 5 wide spread and it didn't work. They're best running play is an inside zone but they are in the bottom 4 of teams that run that play. They don't do what works they instead do what they want to work which is the 5 wide  4 yard passing game. I guess what I'm saying is that they needed to change their identity to something that they are good at doing this season and thats what I mean by adjusting. That's what well coached teams do, if something isn't working they don't keep doing it they instead do what they can do.

[NightTrainLane]

1 minute ago, Chali21 said:

Sure, the first time they played the Chiefs they worked the slot, then they stopped doing that and went back to the 5 wide spread offense. There where many times they could have done that but they didn't its five wide short passes or bust. In KC they started to have success when Carr worked the slot, when they adjusted IN THE END OF THE 3RD QUARTER, at that point the game was over and they couldn't comeback. Before they played the Patriots everyone said they needed to work the slot, once again they tried the 5 wide spread and it didn't work. They're best running play is an inside zone but they are in the bottom 4 of teams that run that play. They don't do what works they instead do what they want to work which is the 5 wide  4 yard passing game. I guess what I'm saying is that they needed to change their identity to something that they are good at doing this season and thats what I mean by adjusting. That's what well coached teams do, if something isn't working they don't keep doing it they instead do what they can do.

I didn't count but Id wager they went 5 wide maybe 12-15% of the time(probably even less) and the point isn't to just throw short every time in that set but sometimes the player is open and instead of throwing a deep pass that has a very low percentage of being completed you take the yards and move to the next down. Because you don't like that concept doesn't make a bad concept.

 

[RaisinBran]

There is a lot of down talk on Carr here. I think we can all agree that he may not be the 125 million dollar man but he's a damn good QB and we should be thankful that we have him. We are no longer a revolving door at the QB position. 

We have the highest paid OL in the league because they are getting paid for how they played last year, not this year. Our OL has been very average this year, and as a result so has the offense. Of course the playcalling seems very plain... I'm seeing less and less of those quick throws on 1st downs that we were so good at last year, and when we do try them they seem to be ineffective. We just aren't very good at adapting and evolving. Let's get a real OC to help lead this offense. It's too bad our offense isn't where it was at last year because it seems like anyone can win the Super Bowl this year. With Wentz out there doesn't seem to be one team that is above and beyond everyone else.