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Lets talk about Ozzie


DontTazeMeBro

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Since we’re having an airing of grievances. How bout the guy who assembled this team?

What does Ravens player Ravens price get you? It seems like it gets you Tony Jefferson and Jeremy Maclin and Kelechi Osemele walking out the door. I feel like in the days of salary cap explosion and rollover, his strategy is outdated. And hoarding compensatory picks because most teams have cap space and good players becomingcap casualties is becoming a rarity.

Another thing that’s outdated IMO is building a defense around big lumbering run defenders.

And in 20 years how can Torrey Smith be the best WR you’ve ever drafted?

And what’s my point you might ask? I DONT ******* KNOW! But let’s talk about it anyway 

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i don't really blame him for for Osemele, we've done well to replace him, but injuries to the OL have killed us for the past few years. dean pees has a knack for making good safeties look bad, that's all i will say about jefferson. and if we didn't sign maclin we would still be rolling out perriman right now. Draft wise I think we've done a solid job, again injuries have killed us past couple years.

One big thing I have a gripe about him for is the coordinators, our OC is someone who got fired from the Jets, our DC is someone who got fired from the Pats, we need to stop hiring these rejects at such important positions.

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9 minutes ago, RavensDefense3 said:

i don't really blame him for for Osemele, we've done well to replace him, but injuries to the OL have killed us for the past few years. dean pees has a knack for making good safeties look bad, that's all i will say about jefferson. and if we didn't sign maclin we would still be rolling out perriman right now. Draft wise I think we've done a solid job, again injuries have killed us past couple years.

One big thing I have a gripe about him for is the coordinators, our OC is someone who got fired from the Jets, our DC is someone who got fired from the Pats, we need to stop hiring these rejects at such important positions.

We need to stop allowing Harbaugh to have a say so on the coaching staff*

Yeah, I think that's what you meant to say. I agree!

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I don't blame Ozzie too much.

There are some obvious deficiencies that I've noted about this FO staff before, and you've outlined them both DTMB - building a defense for the NFL of 15+ years ago, and an inability to identify WR talent.

Also to your other points:
- We just couldn't afford to give KO a $12m/yr contract - even to play LT.  No matter how much we would have liked to have kept him, it just wasn't feasible.
- The Maclin deal looks bad now, but its hard to say why that is the case. The entire offense has sucked for most of the year, and he isn't necessarily the cause for that.
- Jefferson could have been a pretty good deal if he were used right (if a little overpaid), but he is not being put in a position to succeed.  How much of that do you put on Ozzie, and how much on Harbs/Pees?  Should Ozzie have just known that Pees couldn't do it right, and therefore not spend the money?

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29 minutes ago, paraven said:

this is my kinda thread. Ozzie should bare alot of the blame for these performances. He is a prime example of someone who is working off past success. Name me the best players hes drafted since 08. Its not a good list

He's done well the past couple of drafts at getting good, young talent, but the best player we've drafted since '08 (Kelechi Osemele) isn't on the roster anymore. We have zero All-Pro level players on this team, but a handful of "good" players (Mosley, Jimmy, Brandon Williams, etc.) who we drafted. Our best freaking player is Justin Tucker, afterall.

I don't blame Ozzie for a lot of our FA stuff in terms of losing players to bigger contracts, but in terms of drafting, that is squarely on him. Reaching for Perriman while passing up on guys like Stefon Diggs, Cooper Kupp, JuJu, etc. is indefensible. Signing players like Jefferson, Kendrick Lewis, Darin Stewart, etc. etc. are all also indefensible. Either Ozzie is taking guys without consulting with Dean Pees, or Pees think we can fit square pegs into round holes. Either way, it's not working and IMO it goes on both of them. The drafting is obviously squarely on Ozzie.

In terms of coordinators, that's more of Bisciotti and Harbaugh than it is Ozzie, I think. The criticism is not one person, but it's shared between Harbaugh, the coordinators, Ozzie, and the players (with the latter being the least amount of blame).

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i'd rather point to quality of coordinators rather than players. as long as Harbaugh gets to pick his coaches he should take full accountability for their performance. As much as i know the GM let his HC have a say in who to draft and whom to go after in FA. so tell your coordinators to play them to their strength Harbs, thanks.

a good coordinator should get the best out of whom they get put on their squad, shouldn't expect an all around top group to be able to produce adequately.

 

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33 minutes ago, berlin calling said:

i'd rather point to quality of coordinators rather than players. as long as Harbaugh gets to pick his coaches he should take full accountability for their performance. As much as i know the GM let his HC have a say in who to draft and whom to go after in FA. so tell your coordinators to play them to their strength Harbs, thanks.

a good coordinator should get the best out of whom they get put on their squad, shouldn't expect an all around top group to be able to produce adequately.

I don't necessarily agree with this. There should be an open line of communication between all 3 (GM > Head Coach > Coordinators). The GM should draft/acquire players that fit into the scheme. The Coordinator shouldn't necessarily be forced to change his scheme for players. For example, Weddle is not a great centerfielding FS, he thrives playing around the LoS and such (even though he can't tackle....), so if we acquire Jefferson and then change our scheme to make him a box safety, that changes what Weddle does, which changes what our CB's do, which has ripple effects.

I would rather acquire players that fit into our scheme than the other way around. The problem is that there appears to be a disconnect between what Ozzie thinks our scheme is and what Pees/Harbaugh think our scheme is, and that resulted in us acquiring Tony Jefferson, Darian Stewart, Kendrick Lewis, etc. etc.

EDIT: Another example of this would be, imagine if Seattle acquired Weddle to play Strong Safety for them. That would be a disaster. Same thing if they tried to acquire Janoris Jenkins and play him at CB2 on the outside. They have a specific scheme, and they get players that fit that scheme.

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I didn't mention this, but the biggest part is that our scheme has no identity. What kind of players are we looking for at CB? At FS? At SS? At ILB? I can generally pinpoint the kind of linebackesr we're looking for, but when I get to the secondary, I have no idea.

At CB, we're not looking for size (Webb, Young, Carr, Humphrey), but also we are (Walker, Jimmy, Jaylen Hill). Are we looking for press CB's like Jimmy and Carr, or zone CB's like Arrington and Jerraud Powers? If anything, it seems like we've drafted and acquired guys just as we see fit, with no real justification or reasoning behind why we picked them.

At FS, what are we looking for? A guy who can roam and get INT's? A box safety? Someone who can do it all? You'd think the latter, but then again we acquired Darian Stewart, Kendrick Lewis, and drafted Terrence Brooks. 2 of those guys are stuffers and the other is a roamer.

At SS, same question. It seems we draft/acquire box guys, but then our scheme translates into them doing everything.

If your scheme requires EVERYONE to do EVERYTHING, you're not going to find good players at every position. Those guys don't exist, and if they do, they go in the top of the 1st round and cost a lot of money. However, when you have a scheme that is very precise about what is expected from people at each position, then you can draft/acquire players with those traits and make it much easier for players to acclimate to your scheme.

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Something I posted in September 

What I think may limit us is the fact that we don't have a player like Watt, Miller, Mack, Kuechly, Peterson, etc. And I've never seen a truly great defense without that type of player. If one of the vets was going to be that they would be by now. It's probably not going to be a rookie. Urban has a lot of ability and was raw coming out and Judon looks like a beast in the making. So maybe one of them but that's expecting a lot. So while I think we could be a top 5 defense. I'm not quite buying into the "special" or "great" rhetoric 

I feel like not having that type of player has in fact limited us and that is completely on Ozzie. You spend that many high picks on defense someone should turn out to be an All-Pro

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Yes, Newsome and the front office is as much to blame about acquiring players as Pees is about not utilizing the players he actually has in roles that they fit it. And Harbaugh is in the middle of all of it by not having any effect whatsoever on the way players are used and also hiring terrible coordinators. It's not a good situation to be in for Baltimore's franchise regardless of their (misleading) win/loss record this season.

With that said I think the players the front office acquires would actually look good if utilized properly. I've beaten this dead horse for years but I won't stop: scheme > talent. Unless you're talking about the true elites, talent needs the right circumstances to thrive. So clear out the coaching staff and get guys that know what they're doing in this day and age. Stick with Newsome, DeCosta, etc. That's the safer and smarter bet.

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