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This is where I am at with Poles, Fields and Eberflus.


dll2000

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13 hours ago, Madmike90 said:

I'll be honest I think this is maybe a bit outdated among us as fans...as we say about HCs...only 32 of those jobs...well there are only 32 OC jobs and the chance to get it on your CV and a salary of around $1-$1.5 million for that year is probably enough for most to take a chance...these guys know the job they have chosen doesn't offer the greatest job security in the world either...especially guys like Bevell & Olson who have both been all over the league...Patullo was with Flus in Indy for two seasons.

You can always get an NFL coach or coordinator.  But one with options is another story. 

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12 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

You can always get an NFL coach or coordinator.  But one with options is another story. 

I look at it similarly to bribe culture / buying loyalty in some third world countries. Sure, you can pay someone to do some job or provide protection or whatever but it's hardly the same thing as having a brother or friend or someone you actually trust on your side. And since there's no loyalty, there's a high likelihood they bolt for the next higher paying opportunity, sending you back to square one.

One person is coming selfishly, the other (more) selflessly.

Not sure if this analogy makes any sense. It does to me.

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39 minutes ago, chisoxguy7 said:

I look at it similarly to bribe culture / buying loyalty in some third world countries. Sure, you can pay someone to do some job or provide protection or whatever but it's hardly the same thing as having a brother or friend or someone you actually trust on your side. And since there's no loyalty, there's a high likelihood they bolt for the next higher paying opportunity, sending you back to square one.

One person is coming selfishly, the other (more) selflessly.

Not sure if this analogy makes any sense. It does to me.

Generally speaking I think people ideally want to be loyal to a workplace or employer and have it be almost like an extended family and they be loyal back in turn.  I think in more golden years of our country that was actually more common.  

But hard realities can change that quickly.   If people don't have money to pay you or you aren't profitable to them they will let you go regardless.   I mean after a time they really have no choice in a lot of cases to be fair to them.   

But larger companies let people go for arbitrary reasons often.  Bigger the company the more the disconnect between worker and employer.   

Conversely if you get a better opportunity as an employee I think you should always take it rather than stay and be loyal.   I am not saying steal clients or sabotage business or whatever, but businesses and business owners will do what is best for them and employees should also do what is best for themselves.  Even as a future employer I think that.  

That includes NFL coaches.  

I don't think there is anything necessarily wrong with a person looking out for their best personal interests in employment world for either side in a market economy or partial market based economy.

I think privately you should be willing to help your fellow man as best you are able.  

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I think Flus and 2 others were the options for Poles had to pick from because of the McCasky.

I said earlier in the season that Flus was a second rated coach who picked a 3rd rated OCoordinator.

The Best choice from the hire was to get Jim Harbaugh from the start... regardless what he did... because he was the best choice at that time.  He is the best choice now!

Jim Harbaugh won (get the most of..) with bad players!  That is a sign of a great coach!  That is leadership the Bears are lacking.

I think Jim can be as mean as Ditka, but rightly pick/choose when to be Ditka.  I just have that feeling...about him.

Edited by JibjeResearch
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3 hours ago, JibjeResearch said:

I think Flus and 2 others were the options for Poles had to pick from because of the McCasky.

I said earlier in the season that Flus was a second rated coach who picked a 3rd rated OCoordinator.

The Best choice from the hire was to get Jim Harbaugh from the start... regardless what he did... because he was the best choice at that time.  He is the best choice now!

Jim Harbaugh won (get the most of..) with bad players!  That is a sign of a great coach!  That is leadership the Bears are lacking.

I think Jim can be as mean as Ditka, but rightly pick/choose when to be Ditka.  I just have that feeling...about him.

That isn't true

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28 minutes ago, beardown3231 said:

That isn't true

If I remember correctly they gave him their short list but told him if he wanted to interview anyone else, he could. He declined and picked from their list, which honestly I think was pretty foolish. At least interview a few more people to get some extra experience and additional perspectives. Though I suppose if they wanted to have a hire by a certain date, the approach they took makes sense.

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My take is this:

1. Getsy has to be gone. This part isn't a discussion to me. 0% of me wants him here.

2. Fields I'm mostly out on, but I wouldn't completely hate it if we kept him and got another big haul to build around him. The problem is I'm replacing the OC, and that means yet ANOTHER wasted year for Fields getting him acclimated. Timeline wise, it's better to just move on. I'm also not particularly a believer he'll ever be more than "mid" as a passer.

3. Eberflus, I'd be like 70% in favor of keeping him as an individual. The defense is objectively better...... That being said I do have pretty major concerns regarding him constantly taking his foot off the damn gas when we have razor thin leads, and HIS defenses' ability to blow those leads in the 4th quarter. It just gives me these flashbacks to the Lovie era, and I DESPISE non aggressive play calling...... The real issue here for me though is everyone listed above. I'm replacing Fields because I'm replacing the OC.... and I flat out don't trust Eberflus to get an OC worth a damn in here for a lame duck coach, nor do I want to bring a rookie in with a lame duck coach. So he's gone with the rest.

4. Poles hasn't been perfect, by any stretch, but I do like many of the moves he's made, even a few of them that he took a swing on and didn't pan out. I didn't hate the Claypool trade at the time, and I frankly love that he was willing to actually admit it wasn't working and launch Claypool the hell off the team.  He stays and picks his QB and Coaches.

 

Now for my money, regarding what kind of coaches I want in here:  Offensively AND defensively, I want someone with a relentless killer instinct. I want the kind of coach who gets to 72 points THEN ONSIDE KICKS AND TRIES TO SET THE RECORD. Absolutely NO MERCY.   Defensively, I want the same..... I generally speaking don't want a defensive guy as the HC, but if we did go that route, give me a guy in the same vein as Minnesota's defensive coordinator right now. I'm so sick and tired and seeing these damn coaches getting conservative constantly. Grow a pair, take the ball,  and beat the other team with it until they quit..... Then hit them 10 more times as an warning to future opponents.

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2 hours ago, chisoxguy7 said:

If I remember correctly they gave him their short list but told him if he wanted to interview anyone else, he could. He declined and picked from their list, which honestly I think was pretty foolish. At least interview a few more people to get some extra experience and additional perspectives. Though I suppose if they wanted to have a hire by a certain date, the approach they took makes sense.

The second round of interviews was all Poles. You're correct though. He was given the chance to interview more and didn't

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7 hours ago, Epyon said:

2. Fields I'm mostly out on, but I wouldn't completely hate it if we kept him and got another big haul to build around him. The problem is I'm replacing the OC, and that means yet ANOTHER wasted year for Fields getting him acclimated. Timeline wise, it's better to just move on. I'm also not particularly a believer he'll ever be more than "mid" as a passer.

If you’re passing on Williams at 1 in favor of keeping Fields I think you’re picking up the 5YO along with it. I can’t reasonably foresee a scenario where we skip out on Williams without some kind of commitment to Fields being our future, at least short term, and I don’t think Poles would be looking to pay him on a long term extension either. If he stays, I think it’s existing year 4, 5YO, and then the franchise tag if needed/warranted.

Also, an OC change doesn’t have to mean a “wasted year”. Guys change schemes all the time and have success in year 1 when the scheme plays to their strengths.

The real shame IMO is that I actually like the offensive scheme we’re using right now - I just loathe the way Getsy calls it. There are so many concepts within our scheme that seem to not only work, but work for frequent chunk plays when used, and Getsy refuses to call them more than 1-2 times a game if that. Moving pockets. Stretch runs. Slants. But HOOOOOOLY CRAP is he unafraid to spam call the 1st down shotgun run that almost always gains 2 yards or less over and over and over or the Fields design run to the short side of the field with the RB lead blocking that never seems to go anywhere. Drives me crazy. Honestly it’s like Nagy - he’s got a lot of plays, but he has no feel for how to call a game. But should we be surprised? He came to Chicago having never been a play caller before. It’s a Getsy issue, but it’s a hiring issue too which lands at Flus’ feet. 

The biggest mistake Flus has made this year to me was not swapping out play callers during the bye after the MIN debacle with 17 WR screens and letting Janocko call the offense for the last 5 games. Does a different person pulling the strings take the same parts and get a more efficient result? Couldn’t hurt, right? But no - Flus tacitly accepts the obviously dysfunctional relationship between what we actually run effectively and what Getsy wants to do that usually looks to do something totally different from that. Flus has to wear that at the end of the season as much as Getsy does IMO. The staff’s job is to develop the talent it has, and when there has been a clear disconnect between his QB and play caller he’s done nothing about it at all. 

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 12/18/2023 at 12:18 PM, dll2000 said:

To sum for me: 

Play Fields - try to make him look good.  Trade him for max value.  Draft rookie QB.  New coaching staff to go with rookie.  Keep Poles.  

This makes me sad because ideally I wanted to keep Fields and trade number 1 or 2 for a haul and load up the team around a good QB in Fields.  

Two games since and my mind wasn’t changed.   

Harbaugh would have a contract offer as soon as legal and he would be picking QB.

 I also wouldn’t have handed running of my team over to Warren giving your best asset Poles a new boss who didn’t hire him.

Embarrassing lack of ability by McCaskey family.  You had a lifetime to learn NFL.

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50 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

Two games since and my mind wasn’t changed.   

Harbaugh would have a contract offer as soon as legal and he would be picking QB.

 I also wouldn’t have handed running of my team over to Warren giving your best asset Poles a new boss who didn’t hire him.

Embarrassing lack of ability by McCaskey family.  You had a lifetime to learn NFL.

Was talking about this earlier. Harbaugh is the best coach available, but may want to bring his own GM with him. Iirc a report said he backed off of that but idk the validity of it. What if Warren let's Harbaugh bring in his Ast GM and if Poles underperforms the next two years then Warren let's him go and Harbaugh's guy gets bumped up?

If Poles does well in FA and the draft then Harbaugh has a solid GM and his own guy backing him up, if Poles doesn't get it done then Harbaugh gets his guy in there as his yes man. I'd really like to get Hortiz  (if Poles would be cut loose) from BAL still but imagine Harbaugh would bring Gamble over with him.

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Posted (edited)

Today is a sad day for me.  

I think it was Fields last game as a Bear today. 

I have never been more excited for a QB drafted by Bears at draft day.  I was literally jumping up and down by myself watching draft.

 I will die believing if he was coached right from day 1 and Bears didn’t roll out historically bad olines most of his career he succeeds at a high level.  

But we “Bear’s” the QB development.

 


 

 

Edited by dll2000
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