From riches to rags!!!

[whodatworm23]

The other day I was reading a article in which it was announced that former Saints Pro-Bowl inside linebacker and member of the famed "Dome Patrol" Vaughn Johnson would be soon inducted into the Greater New Orleans Sports Hall of Fame and it got me thinking of just how sad the state of affairs has gotten when it comes to the Saints linebacker unit since the glory days of the Dome Patrol.

 

Since the days of Rickey Jackson, Sam Mills, Vaughn Johnson and Pat Swilling the Saints have absolutely been abysmal at drafting and developing young linebackers. 1995 1st round pick Mark Fields was their most successful during that span and even he was considered by many to be a major disappointment as a player that never realized his full potential. 

 

Throughout the years since the days of the Dome Patrol the Saints have added a few viable pieces to their linebacking core through free agency with Jonathan Vilma being the best of the bunch but that's about as good as it has got. 

 

Since Jim Mora's feared unit patrolled the second line of defense for the Saints, New Orleans has seen adequate to below average play at best from the linebacker position which brings me to the current state of the unit today.

 

It really says a lot when the guy widely considered  to be your best player at the position is a former multi team cast off who is 32 years old and can't ever stay healthy (Ellerbe). Then you go out on the first day of free agency and give 6 million per year to a guy in AJ Klein who's been a career backup to this point. That's a lot of bread for an unknown. What makes matters worse is the fact Klein will likely pave the way for the eventual release of the most physically gifted player of the group in former 2015 1st round pick Stephone Anthony who is one training camp away from becoming the next Stanley Jean Baptiste. New 3rd round addition Alex Anzalone has great potential but a concerning injury history. He could be a guy to break out but if your playing the odds, since Mickey Loomis has taken over as Saints GM in 2002 he's drafted 12 linebackers during that time, some with far more potential than Anzalone and none, not one of them ever amounted to anything more than a stop gap player for this club so recent history isn't on your side. The rest of the core is comprised with try hard good guys like Craig Robertson, Nate Stupar and Michael Mauti who are all just good enough to be ok. Then there is Manti Te'o, a great former college player that hasn't been able to translate his game to the next level.

 

Now here's the BOMBSHELL... after all of that, there are actually local Saints beat reporters calling this group the fastest and most athletic linebacking core the Saints have had in years!!!

 

I honestly don't know what's worse, the fact that they actually look at this unit with that kind of positive thinking or the fact that compared to what this club has fielded at the position since their glory days ended in the early 90's that there actually right. 

 

 

 

WHODAT

[Raves]

I think you are underselling Robertson and Anzalone.  Robertson although not as physically gifted or flashy as many other LBers that typically get playing time around the league, is one of those guys that is always in the right position to make the play.  Players like that are often undervalued but play a huge part in a defense's success.  I think Anzalone is the same type of player as Robertson but more athletic, so he gets a combination of both being a smart LB but also having the physical capabilities to put his stamp on a game.  Granted his injury concerns are a problem, but let's wait till he gets hurt in the NFL to really dwell too much on his history.

 

I think the problem with the Saints in the past drafting LBers is they typically drafted guys with amazing physical attributes but lacked the feel for the game, or drafted guys that had a great feel for the game but lacked the physical skills needed to play as there is a need for a minimum of each attribute to be successful in the NFL.

 

Other than that I do agree that the Saints have gone from Riches to Rags on defense and at linebacker specifically.

[whodatworm23]

1 hour ago, Raves said:

I think you are underselling Robertson and Anzalone.  Robertson although not as physically gifted or flashy as many other LBers that typically get playing time around the league, is one of those guys that is always in the right position to make the play.  Players like that are often undervalued but play a huge part in a defense's success.  I think Anzalone is the same type of player as Robertson but more athletic, so he gets a combination of both being a smart LB but also having the physical capabilities to put his stamp on a game.  Granted his injury concerns are a problem, but let's wait till he gets hurt in the NFL to really dwell too much on his history.

 

I think the problem with the Saints in the past drafting LBers is they typically drafted guys with amazing physical attributes but lacked the feel for the game, or drafted guys that had a great feel for the game but lacked the physical skills needed to play as there is a need for a minimum of each attribute to be successful in the NFL.

 

Other than that I do agree that the Saints have gone from Riches to Rags on defense and at linebacker specifically.

As far as Robertson... I like him, he's a solid rotational guy and coverage linebacker but after studying him this offseason he isn't the most physical player and is often making drag down tackles opposed to filling the gaps and stuffing the run. He's also on the wrong side of 30 now. 

 

Anzalone i I have high hopes for... but I had those for Stephone Anthony, Khiri Fortt, Martez Wilson, Cie Grant, etc. I get it, I know what your saying and I'm hoping like you that Anzalone separates himself from those other guys I mentioned but I gotta be honest, my confidence is shaken despite the fact that Nolan is onboard.

[Raves]

I think the biggest thing different from Anzalone and the others, is Anzalone is also more of a true football player.  Much like guys like AJ Hawk, James Laurinitis, Paul Poz(before injuries derailed in him further).  These are guys that had some athleticism and also were smart football players so they had longer careers than others that were much more physically inclined because they just knew how to play the game.

[whodatworm23]

35 minutes ago, Raves said:

I think the biggest thing different from Anzalone and the others, is Anzalone is also more of a true football player.  Much like guys like AJ Hawk, James Laurinitis, Paul Poz(before injuries derailed in him further).  These are guys that had some athleticism and also were smart football players so they had longer careers than others that were much more physically inclined because they just knew how to play the game.

Look... there's a reason I'm high on AA.

 

i love his size, speed and coverage ability but most of all AA possesses something very few other drafted players had... INSTINCTS!!!

 

my biggest concern with AA is that he'll get stuck in a position (SAM) that is rarely utilized in this defense.

 

personally I hope to see Klein start in the middle and AA at (Will). Ellerbe is once again on the pup and I'm bout out of patience with him.

[Dome]

58 minutes ago, whodatworm23 said:

personally I hope to see Klein start in the middle and AA at (Will). Ellerbe is once again on the pup and I'm bout out of patience with him.

As am I, but at this point in the season cutting him makes little sense. If we end up trading for someone that we need to clear cap room for, or if there's a surprise cut we want to sign we always have the option of cutting Ellerbe but right now there's not a ton of upside.

[Dome]

10 hours ago, whodatworm23 said:

2015 1st round pick Stephone Anthony who is one training camp away from becoming the next Stanley Jean Baptiste

I don't think that's fair to Anthony. If the coaching staff hadn't gotten cute last year and actually put players in a position to succeed, I doubt we'd be having this discussion.

Payton always has some vision for a player, he won't deviate from that vision. It's a flaw, but also has lead to some great successes. His vision for Anthony weren't Anthony's strengths, nobody will succeed in circumstances like that. If they had started him at MLB for his 2nd season and done a rotation of Ellerbe, Robertson and Stupar around him I bet we'd be singing a different tune.

 

[whodatworm23]

13 hours ago, domepatrol91 said:

I don't think that's fair to Anthony. If the coaching staff hadn't gotten cute last year and actually put players in a position to succeed, I doubt we'd be having this discussion.

Payton always has some vision for a player, he won't deviate from that vision. It's a flaw, but also has lead to some great successes. His vision for Anthony weren't Anthony's strengths, nobody will succeed in circumstances like that. If they had started him at MLB for his 2nd season and done a rotation of Ellerbe, Robertson and Stupar around him I bet we'd be singing a different tune.

 

While Anthony's growth has been stunted by Payton's so called vision for him... the guy does indeed lack the instincts nessarry to become the player we all hope he would. Instincts in linebacker isn't really something he's all of a sudden going to develop with hard work. Can he improve? Sure but much like former 1st round pick Mark Fields, Anthony possesses all the physical traits you want but the mental game will always keep him one step behind leading him to miss as many plays as he makes. 

 

Where Anthony really hurts his chances to maintain a roll on this team is his inability to be versatile. He isn't really a great coverage backer, he flopped at SAM, His instincts suck for the middle which is his best position and now that Klein is onboard I doubt he ever beats him out for that job. Then there is his failures on special teams which is very worrisome for a player at the bottom of the dept chart.

 

im curious to see now that Ellerbe is gone if the Saints try Anthony at WILL. That's his last chance in my opinion but it's a position I actually think he could really excel at depending on how Dennis Allen employs it.

[Dome]

He needs to be a chaser and blitzer. He'll get to the ball or he won't. If he can learn some instincts to defend the edge run opposite Cam he'll get plenty of reps. Any free blitzes he gets are a bonus, he can cover FBs and a few TE2s in coverage and that's about it. I think he can carve out a role, I don't know if he'll get a big enough opportunity to prove himself.

[Spartica4Real]

Funnily enough the one huge positive everyone had about Anthony was his instincts. Well that and his physical profile. I just think Anthony is a mental bust, there's been many of them before and Anthony may be the next in a long list. 

 

Or he could figure it out and start to get it, but I wouldn't hold my breath. Either way, I agree with the premise of this thread. Our LBs in particular have been so weak for so long. I think we have a strong DL, good secondary if fully healthy (therein lies the issue...), but our LBs are still weak. I expect a good amount of defensive improvement if we're able to maintain good health but our LBs won't be the main reason.

[whodatworm23]

1 hour ago, Spartica4Real said:

Funnily enough the one huge positive everyone had about Anthony was his instincts. Well that and his physical profile. I just think Anthony is a mental bust, there's been many of them before and Anthony may be the next in a long list. 

 

Or he could figure it out and start to get it, but I wouldn't hold my breath. Either way, I agree with the premise of this thread. Our LBs in particular have been so weak for so long. I think we have a strong DL, good secondary if fully healthy (therein lies the issue...), but our LBs are still weak. I expect a good amount of defensive improvement if we're able to maintain good health but our LBs won't be the main reason.

I for one never saw Anthony's instincts as a positive... in fact my biggest concern when he was drafted was that the Saints were once again enamored with physical traits over mental ones.

 

Anthony was benched his sophomore season at Clemson for basically the same exact reason as his demotion with the Saints. Yes he responded by coming back and reclaiming a starting role and excelling but Clemsons defense isn't necessarily structured to the level of responsibility that he now has in the NFL. 

 

I hope the kid works out and turns it around but I also know that he was a guy that former D.C. Rob Ryan coveted and has been clearly been getting phased out ever since his firing. The comparison to Stanley Jean Baptiste that I made earilier is related to the fact that this regime is fully aware of the fan bases growing impatience with the front office botching draft selections and free agent signing and as with SJB the Saints will wait to the prime opertune moment to release Anthony as they did with SJB that offers as littl fan back lash as possible.

[Dome]

7 hours ago, whodatworm23 said:

Yes he responded by coming back and reclaiming a starting role and excelling but Clemsons defense isn't necessarily structured to the level of responsibility that he now has in the NFL. 

 

9 hours ago, domepatrol91 said:

He needs to be a chaser and blitzer. He'll get to the ball or he won't. If he can learn some instincts to defend the edge run opposite Cam he'll get plenty of reps

 

Trial by fire...  throw him at Will and give him some help with coverage on that side to free him up to run.

[whodatworm23]

1 hour ago, domepatrol91 said:

 

 

Trial by fire...  throw him at Will and give him some help with coverage on that side to free him up to run.

I'd just go with Anzalone who is simply a better football player.