jpaulthe1st Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 5 minutes ago, Rich7sena said: I appreciate it but you should know that I really liked Zach Wilson, Deshone Kizer, Malik Willis, Kellen Mond and other notable busts when they were coming out. This list is subject to change as the draft gets closer and more cutups appear on YouTube, but this is my view as of now of the players I have watched: 1. Caleb Williams 2. Jayden Daniels 3. Drake Maye/Michael Penix 4. Bo Nix 5. Spencer Rattler 6. JJ McCarthy I would consider myself as someone who likes Nix and doesn't like McCarthy. I obviously disagree that they are basically the same prospect. Generally, they have some similarities (athleticism, arm strength, blonde), but their differences are not subtle. Traits-wise, Nix is shorter and thicker, quicker as an athlete, and has a much shorter and compact release. On tape, Nix has made a lot more NFL-caliber throws than McCarthy has. Nix has put pretty much every NFL throw on tape just this season alone. He's got deep outs, back-shoulders, deep fades, quick slants, skinny posts, etc. He couldn't put up the numbers he has by only throwing screens. Also, McCarthy's "easy" throws have more to do with scheming of the offense and the threat of the run than him throwing a bunch of screens like Nix does. I'm also curious as to what my bias would be. I didn't go to Oregon, Auburn, or Michigan. Looks like you have a soft spot for big armed QB’s with athleticism for better or worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich7sena Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 1 minute ago, jpaulthe1st said: Looks like you have a soft spot for big armed QB’s with athleticism for better or worse. I think that's probably true for most of us--especially now with so many traits guys panning out. I am probably more willing to overlook some deficiencies if I like the raw material. It has to look right, too. Ultimately, this is just a hobby, and the only risk I take for ranking Spencer Rattler above JJ McCarthy is someone remembering many years later and pointing out that I was wrong. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich7sena Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 18 minutes ago, massraider said: How do you project JJ McCarthy in 6 years, when he's the same age as Rattler? Worse than Spencer Rattler. Don't bookmark this. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humble_Beast Posted January 15 Author Share Posted January 15 I honestly wouldn't be mad at Rattler on day 2/4th round. Would need to sign a vet QB tho. Rattler has the tools but can't be trusted day 1. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich7sena Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 5 minutes ago, Humble_Beast said: I honestly wouldn't be mad at Rattler on day 2/4th round. Would need to sign a vet QB tho. Rattler has the tools but can't be trusted day 1. I think O'Connell is a good enough bridge guy if that were the case. It's also possible that Vegas isn't the best fit for Rattler. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humble_Beast Posted January 15 Author Share Posted January 15 2 minutes ago, Rich7sena said: I think O'Connell is a good enough bridge guy if that were the case. It's also possible that Vegas isn't the best fit for Rattler. Rattler could wash away and be nothing, but he does have the ceiling to play like a top 10 pick. AOC is a QB2 type Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy408 Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 2 hours ago, Rich7sena said: I appreciate it but you should know that I really liked Zach Wilson, Deshone Kizer, Malik Willis, Kellen Mond and other notable busts when they were coming out. This list is subject to change as the draft gets closer and more cutups appear on YouTube, but this is my view as of now of the players I have watched: 1. Caleb Williams 2. Jayden Daniels 3. Drake Maye/Michael Penix 4. Bo Nix 5. Spencer Rattler 6. JJ McCarthy I would consider myself as someone who likes Nix and doesn't like McCarthy. I obviously disagree that they are basically the same prospect. Generally, they have some similarities (athleticism, arm strength, blonde), but their differences are not subtle. Traits-wise, Nix is shorter and thicker, quicker as an athlete, and has a much shorter and compact release. On tape, Nix has made a lot more NFL-caliber throws than McCarthy has. Nix has put pretty much every NFL throw on tape just this season alone. He's got deep outs, back-shoulders, deep fades, quick slants, skinny posts, etc. He couldn't put up the numbers he has by only throwing screens. Also, McCarthy's "easy" throws have more to do with scheming of the offense and the threat of the run than him throwing a bunch of screens like Nix does. I'm also curious as to what my bias would be. I didn't go to Oregon, Auburn, or Michigan. The point I'm making is that neither of them are NFL ready to where they could start next year. Their treats guys that would have to be developed from anywhere between one to three years. Sure there are differences like release, and offenses they played in and body type(as is true for most qb prospects). But ultimately the reason why you would be drafting. Either of these two would be because of their physical traits that translate to the NFL. It's an educated gamble. that's what I meant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 4 hours ago, RaidersAreOne said: Still not really buying into the JJ hype in this forum. Not to say you guys are wrong for thinking he is a good prospect, I just have so many questions about him. I'll do more reading but the verdict from a lot of guys in the Draft forum are he's definitely not worthy of a 1st. I'm honestly shocked at how crazy the hype has gotten. It was @MrOaktown_56 and I chatting about him back in September and the hype is out of control for me at this point. And I'm a Michigan homer. He has a lot of question marks and will need to get with the right organization to let him develop. I love his potential, but there are ton of question market. Tank4drake has his head so high in the Jordan Love clouds (who I loved as well, but haven't felt the need to pat myself on the back) he thinks he can't miss an evaluation on a project now. Fact is, Love goes to most other teams, they force him in and ruin him. He landed in the right spot to develop. That is JJ's best path. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 3 hours ago, Jeremy408 said: My take on it is if you like McCarthy but don't like Bo Nix you're basically biased because their game is basically the same. Two guys with traits But in offices, where you don't have to make real throws often. If you like both fine if you like neither fine, but you can't say you like one and not the other(not talking about you specifically btw) Don't follow. Michigan and Oregon's offenses are not similar at all. I've seen both QBs make NFL (real?) throws in their offenses. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 3 hours ago, Rich7sena said: I appreciate it but you should know that I really liked Zach Wilson, Deshone Kizer, Malik Willis, Kellen Mond and other notable busts when they were coming out. This list is subject to change as the draft gets closer and more cutups appear on YouTube, but this is my view as of now of the players I have watched: 1. Caleb Williams 2. Jayden Daniels 3. Drake Maye/Michael Penix 4. Bo Nix 5. Spencer Rattler 6. JJ McCarthy I would consider myself as someone who likes Nix and doesn't like McCarthy. I obviously disagree that they are basically the same prospect. Generally, they have some similarities (athleticism, arm strength, blonde), but their differences are not subtle. Traits-wise, Nix is shorter and thicker, quicker as an athlete, and has a much shorter and compact release. On tape, Nix has made a lot more NFL-caliber throws than McCarthy has. Nix has put pretty much every NFL throw on tape just this season alone. He's got deep outs, back-shoulders, deep fades, quick slants, skinny posts, etc. He couldn't put up the numbers he has by only throwing screens. Also, McCarthy's "easy" throws have more to do with scheming of the offense and the threat of the run than him throwing a bunch of screens like Nix does. I'm also curious as to what my bias would be. I didn't go to Oregon, Auburn, or Michigan. Great breakdown on Nix. I have him QB 4 as well and agree with everything you said here. Also think of the QBs, he's the best pre snap of the group in reading coverages and knowing where to go with the ball. He's NFL ready in that regard to me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCOUGHMAN Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 13 minutes ago, big_palooka said: I'm honestly shocked at how crazy the hype has gotten. It was @MrOaktown_56 and I chatting about him back in September and the hype is out of control for me at this point. And I'm a Michigan homer. He has a lot of question marks and will need to get with the right organization to let him develop. I love his potential, but there are ton of question market. Tank4drake has his head so high in the Jordan Love clouds (who I loved as well, but haven't felt the need to pat myself on the back) he thinks he can't miss an evaluation on a project now. Fact is, Love goes to most other teams, they force him in and ruin him. He landed in the right spot to develop. That is JJ's best path. I was bout to say you drove the love bus I remember I was a passenger 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCOUGHMAN Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 14 minutes ago, big_palooka said: Don't follow. Michigan and Oregon's offenses are not similar at all. I've seen both QBs make NFL (real?) throws in their offenses. Surprised you don’t see herbert in jj I see similarities Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 1 minute ago, NCOUGHMAN said: Surprised you don’t see herbert in jj I see similarities Someone compared him to a more athletic Kirk Cousins and I can't unsee that comparison. Maye most compare to Herbert. I see a lot of Carson in Maye which gets me excited with him. People forget how athletic a mover Carson was at USC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCOUGHMAN Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 Just now, big_palooka said: Someone compared him to a more athletic Kirk Cousins and I can't unsee that comparison. Maye most compare to Herbert. I see a lot of Carson in Maye which gets me excited with him. People forget how athletic a mover Carson was at USC. Maye is jj at a different school Imo put maye on mich and I think they produce the same maye is just the prototype on paper but not so impressive in the games herbert I just remember his last year not having targets putting the team on his back running in bowl games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 3 hours ago, big_palooka said: I'm honestly shocked at how crazy the hype has gotten. It was @MrOaktown_56 and I chatting about him back in September and the hype is out of control for me at this point. And I'm a Michigan homer. He has a lot of question marks and will need to get with the right organization to let him develop. I love his potential, but there are ton of question market. Tank4drake has his head so high in the Jordan Love clouds (who I loved as well, but haven't felt the need to pat myself on the back) he thinks he can't miss an evaluation on a project now. Fact is, Love goes to most other teams, they force him in and ruin him. He landed in the right spot to develop. That is JJ's best path. Yeah he has a lot of potential but is not a finished product. I’d say taking him at 13 is rich but I also like the potential a lot and if you think he’s a franchise guy you pull the trigger. That being said if you have a plan to move up from the 2nd to get a qb, im all for taking bpa at 13 whether that’s newton, Wiggins, etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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