NYRaider Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 7 minutes ago, Jeremy408 said: I mean to define a high level. Under my scenario, we're not asking him to be an all pro franchise QB. We're asking him to play like an nfl starting qb and not either go for 3 quarters without completing a pass or lead the league in INTs. I think russell can manage that with our weapons and I think it would be foolish did not address offensive line regardless of who's under center next year so thats expected to be addressed. In terms of the playcalling, there's reason to believe that Russell and Payton schematically aren't a very good fit(which was what I said last off-season but I was called delusional for that of course). Russell is improvisational player. Peyton runs a tight scheme that emphasizes checking the ball down and intermediate passing. A lot of quarterbacks that would not work on the Sean Payton system but that doesn't mean Sean Payton is a bad play caller or that player isnt a good quarterback. It's just a schematic difference. Under my scenario, he gets two years. That's not enough time to act out especially if we draft a quarterback who can replace it(which we were going to draft a quarterback to potentially start anyway or at the very least battle O'Connell for the starting job). In terms of all of the headcase stuff, I'm not gonna really speak against that because we don't know what happened in that locker room but ultimately the reality is this: Russell is 35 and willing to play for the veteran minimum. He knows this is his last chance; he has to. He doesn't well it's simple we cut him(or go after him in the first place). I think the misconception is that we should give him some kind of Kirk cousins deal(which I don't think her cousins deserves but that's another argument entirely). Also want to point out that this scenario only works out if you draft a Michael Penix type of player(when my opinion probably could start in the NFL) or JJ McCarthy that's so young that it doesn't even matter if he can play or not. This scenario doesn't work if you're trying to get like Bo Nix. Luke Getsy came from the Nathaniel Hackett coaching tree and their schemes are similar. What are you giving him in year 2? And how do you know that he's willing to play for the vet minimum? As you said he played good ball last year so I'm sure he'll still value himself highly. How does it work for Penix but not Nix when they're about the same age? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 2 minutes ago, Jeremy408 said: Because like ive mentioned a few times already. context is everything. Tampa Bay signed Baker to $10 million contract last year obviously they thought he could play but context dictated how much they were willing to pay. That is what I am referring to when potentially signing a Russell Wilson. And the Saints signed Carr to a 4 yr/$150M deal Russell as a free agent is closer to Carr then he is to Baker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy408 Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 1 minute ago, NYRaider said: Luke Getsy came from the Nathaniel Hackett coaching tree and their schemes are similar. What are you giving him in year 2? And how do you know that he's willing to play for the vet minimum? As you said he played good ball last year so I'm sure he'll still value himself highly. How does it work for Penix but not Nix when they're about the same age? A lot of people come from similar coaching trees some of them suck some of them don't. Some thing else that's underrated is the fact that Nathaniel Hackett had to be a head coach which he shouldn't have been. Lastly an important thing there was that Russell Wilson needed surgery before the season where he got traded but didn't get it until after the 2022 season. I'd give him maybe a little bit more than Baker got last year on a one-year deal and let's see what he does. If it's a problem you can just mention if it's not a problem either a ring him back for the right price or you roll with the guy you drafted this year. It's not really complicated. Sure he played good ball but he's also getting paid by the Broncos regardless of what happens. He retire tomorrow he's getting paid by the Broncos for the next two years so wherever he goes money is not going to be a real factor. If it is we don't sign them it's not like a complex thing lol Not about age it's about could you play year one. Penix is older but can likely play year one. Nix is older and probably cant unless he goes somewhere where he not asked to do much. JJ is 50-50 on whether or not he's able to play or not but the fact that he's 20 makes it so he has time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy408 Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 3 minutes ago, NYRaider said: And the Saints signed Carr to a 4 yr/$150M deal Russell as a free agent is closer to Carr then he is to Baker Carr isnt getting paid by his former team(anymore smh) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
massraider Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 10 minutes ago, NYRaider said: And the Saints signed Carr to a 4 yr/$150M deal Russell as a free agent is closer to Carr then he is to Baker No way. Someone does a deal like that, someone is tying their career to a guy. No one is tying their career to Wilson. Not a single GM in this league is giving him anything CLOSE to a Carr deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 7 minutes ago, Jeremy408 said: Carr isnt getting paid by his former team(anymore smh) That'll only be for one year though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 1 minute ago, massraider said: No way. Someone does a deal like that, someone is tying their career to a guy. No one is tying their career to Wilson. Not a single GM in this league is giving him anything CLOSE to a Carr deal. As a free agent he is closer in value to Carr then he is to Baker though. He's an established veteran that has played at a high level in the past. Baker was bad his last season in Cleveland and got cut mid season in Carolina that's why his deal was so small. The entire Russ argument is very contradictory, either he can still play which means he's going to get more than just a 1 year minimum deal. Or he cannot play anymore and he's going to get the one year minimum, either scenario isn't a good fit here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 13 minutes ago, Jeremy408 said: A lot of people come from similar coaching trees some of them suck some of them don't. Some thing else that's underrated is the fact that Nathaniel Hackett had to be a head coach which he shouldn't have been. Lastly an important thing there was that Russell Wilson needed surgery before the season where he got traded but didn't get it until after the 2022 season. I'd give him maybe a little bit more than Baker got last year on a one-year deal and let's see what he does. If it's a problem you can just mention if it's not a problem either a ring him back for the right price or you roll with the guy you drafted this year. It's not really complicated. Sure he played good ball but he's also getting paid by the Broncos regardless of what happens. He retire tomorrow he's getting paid by the Broncos for the next two years so wherever he goes money is not going to be a real factor. If it is we don't sign them it's not like a complex thing lol Not about age it's about could you play year one. Penix is older but can likely play year one. Nix is older and probably cant unless he goes somewhere where he not asked to do much. JJ is 50-50 on whether or not he's able to play or not but the fact that he's 20 makes it so he has time. Why would a QB that can still play in your opinion take such a small deal? He'll have suitors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy408 Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 1 minute ago, NYRaider said: Why would a QB that can still play in your opinion take such a small deal? He'll have suitors. because he's already getting paid franchise quarterback money by the team that got rid of him. So he's going to take a smaller deal to help his team out to spite them(Especially a division rival). If he didn't wanna play football anymore tomorrow he'd still be getting paid franchise money from the broncos for the next two years. So it actually doesn't even matter when he gets paid by the team he's playing for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 3 minutes ago, Jeremy408 said: because he's already getting paid franchise quarterback money by the team that got rid of him. So he's going to take a smaller deal to help his team out to spite them(Especially a division rival). If he didn't wanna play football anymore tomorrow he'd still be getting paid franchise money from the broncos for the next two years. So it actually doesn't even matter when he gets paid by the team he's playing for. That's only the case for a year though so what incentive does he have to play on a one year deal when he'll likely be the only real veteran starting option to hit FA outside of maybe Cousins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
massraider Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 35 minutes ago, NYRaider said: As a free agent he is closer in value to Carr then he is to Baker though. He's an established veteran that has played at a high level in the past. Baker was bad his last season in Cleveland and got cut mid season in Carolina that's why his deal was so small. The entire Russ argument is very contradictory, either he can still play which means he's going to get more than just a 1 year minimum deal. Or he cannot play anymore and he's going to get the one year minimum, either scenario isn't a good fit here. He can put up game manager+ numbers. Similar to prime Carr. But you are ignoring the issues with his personality, that Carr didn't have. He played well enough to try and salvage him, especially with 85 mill in dead cap. But the Broncos didn't. Seattle didn't want to give him a new deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 27 minutes ago, massraider said: He can put up game manager+ numbers. Similar to prime Carr. But you are ignoring the issues with his personality, that Carr didn't have. He played well enough to try and salvage him, especially with 85 mill in dead cap. But the Broncos didn't. Seattle didn't want to give him a new deal. Based on what we saw last year he's going to give you similar passing numbers to guys like Fields and Pickett. It's pretty telling that other teams would rather roll into QB hell then keep Russ. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickButera Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 1 hour ago, NYRaider said: That's only the case for a year though so what incentive does he have to play on a one year deal when he'll likely be the only real veteran starting option to hit FA outside of maybe Cousins. You're missing the language in his contract. If he takes a deal this year for 2 years 60 million, the broncos pay 40 and his new team pays 20. I'f I'm Wilson it's only 20 million more in his pocket. But if he takes a 1 year minimum, he gets 40 this year and then he signs a bigger contract next year for 30+ a year or something. His contract offsets whatever he gets on a contract this offseason. Which is why it's already coming out that he's going to take a minimum deal from his next team. https://broncoswire.usatoday.com/2024/02/28/nfl-news-russell-wilson-expected-to-sign-next-team-for-league-minimum/ https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/russell-wilson-offers-surprising-contractual-upside-in-nfl-free-agency-despite-broncos-trade-being-worst-ever/ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 4 minutes ago, NickButera said: You're missing the language in his contract. If he takes a deal this year for 2 years 60 million, the broncos pay 40 and his new team pays 20. I'f I'm Wilson it's only 20 million more in his pocket. But if he takes a 1 year minimum, he gets 40 this year and then he signs a bigger contract next year for 30+ a year or something. His contract offsets whatever he gets on a contract this offseason. Which is why it's already coming out that he's going to take a minimum deal from his next team. https://broncoswire.usatoday.com/2024/02/28/nfl-news-russell-wilson-expected-to-sign-next-team-for-league-minimum/ https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/russell-wilson-offers-surprising-contractual-upside-in-nfl-free-agency-despite-broncos-trade-being-worst-ever/ The league minimum this year, it has nothing to do with 2025 and beyond, why couldn't he just sign a deal that is the minimum in 2024 and shoots up in 25/26 to secure more GTD money for himself beyond this year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vike daddy Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 have you guys figured out yet what the Raiders are going to do this year, drafting a QB-wise? attempt a trade up? go after the second tier guys? not draft and get a FA? i mean c'mon, there are those of us who need to know! lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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