Forge Posted October 16, 2017 Author Share Posted October 16, 2017 17 minutes ago, N4L said: The bolded is backed up by quantifiable data, whereas the conference a player comes from does not fall under the same category in my opinion. I am not advocating for any big 12 QB by any means, I am just saying that if you like a guy, you take him, even if other players from the same school haven't panned out. Another example is Darnold, people keep saying "USC quarterbacks never pan out in the NFL" but that is the type of bias that can lead people to pick and choose information that supports their opinion, rather than allowing the information to dictate their opinion. Big difference IMO The more I think about it, the more I hope that someone falls in love with one of these two QBs and that we can trade down 3-4 spots, put up an extra second this year and next, draft an edge rusher, and then take a qb in the second So is the air raid system thing...it's just a little more subjective. But no air raid quarterback has succeeded yet as an NFL starter (but again, subjectivity - you can easily say that Keenum has been a success given where he was drafted / expectations, etc). The big 12 thing...I mean, in the modern day nfl, its pretty ugly. And it's not like they have a limited number of guys drafted. The big 12 thing is more of a recent trend more so than anything else, particularly since the advent of that spread system within the conference as a whole. I don't know that there is a team in the conference that doesn't run it. But again, its a bias that I have, which is why I'm open about it, because whenever I speak about those type of guys, you know right from the start that I have an issue with something about them. Doesn't make me right or wrong in my eval (whether they can throw into windows, read more than half a field, etc etc), but if I'm going to be vocal about the way I feel, then I think everyone deserves to know where I'm coming from. Similar guys and I'll lean toward the non-air raid, non-big 12 quarterback. When one of them proves me wrong, then I'll re-evaluate, but nobody really has outside of Bradford...and he still was the number 1 quarterback that year, even for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TecmoSuperJoe Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 11 hours ago, N4L said: I think evaluating QBs based on the conference they play in is bologna. Just because previous QBs haven't had success doesn't mean the next guy won't. Its the nature vs nurture argument. Some of these failed big 12 qbs probably could have made it, if they had proper coaching etc. Some of them would never make it because they were never going to make it anyways, but the system they played throughout college made them look better than they ever were. With that said, I will pass on Baker Mayfield with our top two pick if I am Lynch This is what gives me pause because every person is different regardless of where they play. There have been some quality quarterbacks in NFL history that have gone to schools that no one ever thought would produce big time NFL starters for quarterback. Like Steve McNair or Kurt Warner. I think you really have to take each person with a case by case basis because you just never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
757-NINER Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 There is no way Mayfield is a top 10 pick. His measurables won't lend himself to that justification. 3rd round round or later however, he should defintely be in play for any QB needy team. Hell, I wouldnt be surprised if he went in the second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TecmoSuperJoe Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 21 hours ago, Forge said: Bryce Petty famously did not know what a Mike Linebacker was when he cam out....and I think he was senior. Just remember Brett Favre didn't know what a nickel defense was when he came out too. He had to ask Ty Detmer, his teammate, about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big9erfan Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 5 hours ago, 757-NINER said: There is no way Mayfield is a top 10 pick. His measurables won't lend himself to that justification. 3rd round round or later however, he should defintely be in play for any QB needy team. Hell, I wouldnt be surprised if he went in the second. Surpsised IF he went in the second? I'd be surprised if he goes any lower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted October 17, 2017 Author Share Posted October 17, 2017 5 hours ago, 757-NINER said: There is no way Mayfield is a top 10 pick. His measurables won't lend himself to that justification. 3rd round round or later however, he should defintely be in play for any QB needy team. Hell, I wouldnt be surprised if he went in the second. I think he goes in the second. Perhaps some team loves him enough to take him at the tail end of the first, but it depends on if everyone comes out. If everyone comes out (Rosen, Darnold, Jackson) then I'm already seeing 5 quarterbacks go in the first round (whether or not they deserve to) in Rosen, Darnold, Allen (yup, even with this awful season, I think someone is taking him in the first), Jackson and Rudolph (I wouldn't take him in the first, but some people really love him). The idea of him being a sixth quarterback in the first seems somewhat unlikely. Though I suppose teams could like him more than one of those other guys, but I would still bank on a second round pick with Mayfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted October 17, 2017 Author Share Posted October 17, 2017 3 hours ago, PapaShogun said: Just remember Brett Favre didn't know what a nickel defense was when he came out too. He had to ask Ty Detmer, his teammate, about it. And if Petty had Favre's physical gifts, I may have been willing to overlook it when evaluating him lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted October 17, 2017 Author Share Posted October 17, 2017 Right now, we would need for the Browns to win a game. Current opponent winning percentage: 1. Browns 0-6 (.486) 2. 49ers 0-6 (.559) Pretty substantial difference. Truthfully though, I don't think that we are anywhere near as bad as the Browns are right now, so I think we are going to win a game or two anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4L Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 38 minutes ago, Forge said: Right now, we would need for the Browns to win a game. Current opponent winning percentage: 1. Browns 0-6 (.486) 2. 49ers 0-6 (.559) Pretty substantial difference. Truthfully though, I don't think that we are anywhere near as bad as the Browns are right now, so I think we are going to win a game or two anyway. My hope is that teams like the giants, chargers, colts, bears, tampa (all with 2 wins, no one has one win right now) continue to win games and end up with 4-6 wins each. That way it could go: Cle: 0-16 SF-3-13 Third worst team 4-12 fourth worst team 5-11 etc Probably the best case scenario IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted October 17, 2017 Author Share Posted October 17, 2017 Just now, N4L said: My hope is that teams like the giants, chargers, colts, bears, tampa (all with 2 wins, no one has one win right now) continue to win games and end up with 4-6 wins each. That way it could go: Cle: 0-16 SF-3-13 Third worst team 4-12 fourth worst team 5-11 etc Probably the best case scenario IMO That's the tricky part for me too. The way that this team has played, they deserve to win a few games. I don't want them to go winless. Give me two wins and the #2 pick and I'm perfectly okay with that. We aren't going to outtank the browns anyway lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4L Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 Yeah, and with the fact there are two QBs who are perceived as top flight talents, we should either be able to draft one or find someone who is willing to trade up. Last year missing out on #1 meant missing out on the only guy who seemed like a generational talent. Seems like its another Goff/Wentz type draft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big9erfan Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 11 hours ago, Forge said: I think he goes in the second. Perhaps some team loves him enough to take him at the tail end of the first, but it depends on if everyone comes out. If everyone comes out (Rosen, Darnold, Jackson) then I'm already seeing 5 quarterbacks go in the first round (whether or not they deserve to) in Rosen, Darnold, Allen (yup, even with this awful season, I think someone is taking him in the first), Jackson and Rudolph (I wouldn't take him in the first, but some people really love him). The idea of him being a sixth quarterback in the first seems somewhat unlikely. Though I suppose teams could like him more than one of those other guys, but I would still bank on a second round pick with Mayfield. I agree. When I said he wouldn't last till the third I actually was thinking that the way QBs get taken these days he could go at the bottom of the first. Like you I think it might depend on how many other qbs get taken ... but there are always teams looking for qbs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big9erfan Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 12 more points (theoretically) and we would be 5-1 (counting only one point needed to keep two games from going into OT). Anyway, point is we may be winless but we are a heck of a lot better than a whole lot of teams over the years that were 0-6 to start the season. I do think we need to start hoping those other teams teams with only 1 or 2 wins now win at least a couple more because I still see us winning a few games this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted October 18, 2017 Author Share Posted October 18, 2017 The tackle market took another hit and Trey Adams from Washington is out for the year. It looks like he's going back to Washington for his senior season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knowledge Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 All aboard the Barkley train! CHOO CHOO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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