2018 Draft Thread I

[big9erfan]

2 hours ago, JIllg said:

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/futures/2018/futures-minkah-fitzpatrick

Confirms a lot of what I saw in the limited game film I had on YouTube (and casual observation as an Auburn and SEC fan). I would hope if we draft him, we'd use his flexibility in the same way. Keep a guy like K'Waun in the slot as the 5th db against teams with a tendancy to use Trent Taylor and other quick change of direction guys there in nickel with Fitz as the high safety. If a team wants to bully your slot defender with a guy like Larry Fitzgerald, well, they get Colbert as the 5th db playing high while Fitzpatrick takes the nickel instead. Other players just need to master one skill that they are good at because he can handle the rest. Keep him around in case Tartt can't prove healthy for a whole season and next year, he's the box safety if you need him to be. A little on the small side, but he still does that job very well. He can handle whatever information you can throw at him. I want that sort of person on my football team. If my DC can't find a way to use him properly, I get a new DC.

This certainly is a good option, particularly if we're thinking of moving Ward back to CB. I go back and forth between Minkah and James just like I did last year between Hooker and Adams. I still think one of Smith, Edmunds, Landry or Davenport is more likely. But Minkah and James are defintely in the mix.  Like Oldie just said my wildest dream is that Nelson somehow falls to our pick. After all only one G has gone as high as Nelson is projected, at least in recent memory, and it turns he's already been traded twice and cut twice. So teams might not be as inclined as mockers are to take a G in the top 8.

Edit: Looked up drafting of Guards. Looke to me that the highest in the past 30 years or so was back in 1986 when Jim Dombrowski was picked 6th.

[J-ALL-DAY]

There has actually been some talk of trying Nelson at tackle. I thought that was interesting but not totally a crazy idea. Could start out at tackle and then moved inside if he doesn't perform well at the tackle spot. 

[big9erfan]

1 hour ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

My power rankings change pretty often and I don't even remember what I put a few days ago lol. But it's around this:

1. Landry

2. Ward

3. Smith

4. Fitzpatrick/James

5. James/Fitzpatrick

6. Wynn

7. Oliver

8. Edmunds

Speaking of Wynn, we could trade Brown for a 1st or 2nd to the Pats and draft Wynn and plug him at RT right? He may not have the size you are looking for in a RT, but he was a damn good pass protector last year and could potentially by one in the NFL. 

 

Would love to get Wynn. But I think Brown is an excellent RT, especially in a pass-orented NFL. My only concern is where we stand with re-signing him. It's precisely for this reason I don't think NE would be interested.  They are constantly getting rid of high cost guys to acquire multiple cheaper guys. If Wynn is worth taking in the late 20's then I think they would prefer to do that than take Brown.

I'm working on my revised mock since I haven't done one since before the draft. I'm closing in on putting Austin Corbett in as one of my third round picks.

[J-ALL-DAY]

I like Brown a lot as well as he is an elite pass protector. But Maiocco keeps dropping these hints that the team may not want to pay him the big bucks that he will almost certainly get on the open market. My thing is if they are operating in that line of thinking, then get something for him while you can. Similar to the Pats with Cooks and the Bills with Watkins last year as well as Jets with Richardson. 

[big9erfan]

Just now, J-ALL-DAY said:

I like Brown a lot as well as he is an elite pass protector. But Maiocco keeps dropping these hints that the team may not want to pay him the big bucks that he will almost certainly get on the open market. My thing is if they are operating in that line of thinking, then get something for him while you can. Similar to the Pats with Cooks and the Bills with Watkins last year as well as Jets with Richardson. 

Oh, I agree with all this.  But what we know is also known by every other team.  If we're afraid of what it would cost to re-sign him then every other team is too. They also know that we have that concern and could conceivably cut him next year rather than re-sign him to a big contract.  So if you were an opposing GM what would you offer under those conditions? I think a first is out of the question.

[J-ALL-DAY]

This is where I disagree. Some team will give him over 10+ million per year when he is a FA even with some of his issues. Though the issues may be overblown a bit. He may have shown up out of shape to camp, but by week 1 you wouldn't have know it. And the part about questioning his toughness for staying out with the shoulder injury is exactly why players don't trust the team doctors in any sport. You are seeing more and more athletes go get 2nd opinions and ignore what the team doctors say as they are....well employed by the team. Remember the Kap situation? The team doctors didn't think much was wrong with him and he ends up getting like three different surgeries shortly after. Kawhi Leonard thought the Spurs doctors misdiagnosed him and isn't going to play until his own doctors clear him despite the Spurs medical staff giving him the green light. And Brown ended up getting surgery and won't be ready for the early part of the offseason showing he was indeed dealing with problems with the shoulder......Then again, the team doctors did say "what shoulder" after Lynch asked them if they were worried about Foster's shoulder LOL. They don't seem to care too much about shoulder injuries. 
 

[Forge]

23 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

There has actually been some talk of trying Nelson at tackle. I thought that was interesting but not totally a crazy idea. Could start out at tackle and then moved inside if he doesn't perform well at the tackle spot. 

He's got the size for it. I think the only reason he wasn't there at ND is when he came to school they already had the tackles filled in (Ronnie Stanley, McGlinchey). He's a tad heavy footed, but I have no doubt that he could probably be decent right tackle in the league. Not sure about left tackle - too much projection there if you're looking for a more athletic guy. 

[Forge]

16 minutes ago, big9erfan said:

Oh, I agree with all this.  But what we know is also known by every other team.  If we're afraid of what it would cost to re-sign him then every other team is too. They also know that we have that concern and could conceivably cut him next year rather than re-sign him to a big contract.  So if you were an opposing GM what would you offer under those conditions? I think a first is out of the question.

Very much disagree with that. If that was the case, we would never see a big money deal in free agency

[Forge]

Quote

Edge rusher Arden Key posted times of 4.85 and 4.87. He weighed in at 238 pounds, according to the LSU football Twitter page. He played much of the 2017 season at 250.

He's not going in the first two rounds. Wouldn't be surprised if he's there in 4th or later at this point

[J-ALL-DAY]

Perfect! Grab him with one of our 3rds. 

[Forge]

47 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

Perfect! Grab him with one of our 3rds. 

I'm really trying to figure out what do with him now. I mean, his stock is a completely in the trash. I don't know that you have to use a pick that high on him to be honestly. At 238 pounds, I can't imagine that any team is putting him on a 4 man front, and he's not showcasing the speed and explosion that would allow him to play the edge standing up. Plus the off the field concerns... this is just ugly for him. 4.85 and 4.87 at 238? That's really, really bad. Hand ran comparable to those times and he's a 300 pound defensive tackle. His vert was below average (though his broad was okay). Plus, ugly game tape in 2017... I honestly think he could be there in rounds 4 or 5 at this point 

[rudyZ]

43 minutes ago, Forge said:

He's not going in the first two rounds. Wouldn't be surprised if he's there in 4th or later at this point

I haven't liked what I've seen from him at all this offseason. Him being light, unwilling to compete at the combine, yet daring to call himself the best pass rusher in this class... meh... 

[Ronnie's Pinky]

1 hour ago, Forge said:

He's not going in the first two rounds. Wouldn't be surprised if he's there in 4th or later at this point

Something strange is going on here. He doesn't look like a 4.8 guy on film, when he was actually trying, at least. Been going to the Jamarcus Russell academy, I guess. Gotta wonder if he's not just out of shape and really doesn't care about being a football player. Pass.

[big9erfan]

3 hours ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

This is where I disagree. Some team will give him over 10+ million per year when he is a FA even with some of his issues. Though the issues may be overblown a bit. He may have shown up out of shape to camp, but by week 1 you wouldn't have know it. And the part about questioning his toughness for staying out with the shoulder injury is exactly why players don't trust the team doctors in any sport. You are seeing more and more athletes go get 2nd opinions and ignore what the team doctors say as they are....well employed by the team. Remember the Kap situation? The team doctors didn't think much was wrong with him and he ends up getting like three different surgeries shortly after. Kawhi Leonard thought the Spurs doctors misdiagnosed him and isn't going to play until his own doctors clear him despite the Spurs medical staff giving him the green light. And Brown ended up getting surgery and won't be ready for the early part of the offseason showing he was indeed dealing with problems with the shoulder......Then again, the team doctors did say "what shoulder" after Lynch asked them if they were worried about Foster's shoulder LOL. They don't seem to care too much about shoulder injuries. 
 

Again if you're an opposing GM you know what you just said is true too. "Some team" will offer him a lot. What you don't know since he's a FA is whether you are going to be the team to sign him to that next deal. It's not unreasonable to think some team would give up a first for him, maybe even a first and be willing to re-sign him for a lot. But giving up a first for a guy in the last year of his contract who other teams might want seems too iffy to me.  Whatever, eh. We'll see how it goes.  I certainly wouldn't be opposed to trading him for a first if somebody wanted to give us that for him.

[big9erfan]

3 hours ago, Forge said:

Very much disagree with that. If that was the case, we would never see a big money deal in free agency

No - I don't mean they won't be willing to pay a lot. I mean afraid that in a bidding war they might lose out to some other team. My point is does some team want to give up a first which they might be able to use on an guy, unproven though he might be, with the potentail to be as good and be guaranted they can lock him up for 5 years at rookie pay scale numbers, for a guy who they think will be part of a bidding war and who then might end up going elsewhere.