Off-Season 2024-"Peters" built

[lavar703]

7 hours ago, ARTMONK HOF said:

 

Im not so sure about not trading him. I think it would benefit both sides. He is 29 years old. He deserves to leave if he doesn’t want to be part of a rebuild. 

We just signed 20 players and have 9 draft picks with like 6 of them being decently high. We're going to take a QB. I don't think this rebuild is going to take as long as others do. Especially with a decent group in charge. 

[Slappy Mc]

2 hours ago, lavar703 said:

We just signed 20 players and have 9 draft picks with like 6 of them being decently high. We're going to take a QB. I don't think this rebuild is going to take as long as others do. Especially with a decent group in charge. 

I'm on the other end. I think it's 2-3 years and a lot more roster turnover before we break .500. I hope that the QB we take pans out but the are a lot of factors that play into it. OTs are a big part of their potential success and we are suboptimal right. 

[lavar703]

8 minutes ago, Slappy Mc said:

I'm on the other end. I think it's 2-3 years and a lot more roster turnover before we break .500. I hope that the QB we take pans out but the are a lot of factors that play into it. OTs are a big part of their potential success and we are suboptimal right. 

There is no way they're genuinely comfortable with what we have at LT. I refuse to believe that. I think something happens after the draft if they can't move up for one of the big boys. 

[Slappy Mc]

20 minutes ago, lavar703 said:

There is no way they're genuinely comfortable with what we have at LT. I refuse to believe that. I think something happens after the draft if they can't move up for one of the big boys. 

They have been true to what they have said for the most part, but hopefully it's smokescreen with the draft around the corner. 

I think with our need to take a QB at 2 however it puts us in a position we must trade up for a top 4 OT (15-20 range) and that could cost too much. We very possibly could be looking at our starting 5 (Lucas, Allegretti, Biadasz, Cosmi, Wylie). That scares the heck out of me if I was a young QB.

[offbyone]

1 hour ago, Slappy Mc said:

I'm on the other end. I think it's 2-3 years and a lot more roster turnover before we break .500. I hope that the QB we take pans out but the are a lot of factors that play into it. OTs are a big part of their potential success and we are suboptimal right. 

Every 2 years the majority of an NFL roster turns over.  So yeah that is going to happen every 2 years.  This is the new nfl.  I don't think this long rebuild concept is still relevant.  Coaching is key.  You have to bring players up to speed quick.  There is no reason why we can't starting winning now.  Maybe a couple years until we win it all, but we can >.500 this season.

Lots of teams have worse than lucas.  What is the point of having Peters if he can't draft a tackle.  We have 6 picks in the top 100.  Figure it out Peters, that is your job.

[Slappy Mc]

3 minutes ago, offbyone said:

Lots of teams have worse than lucas.  What is the point of having Peters if he can't draft a tackle.  We have 6 picks in the top 100.  Figure it out Peters, that is your job.

I'm not sure that "lots" of teams have worse than Lucas. I personally think Lucas is a downgrade from a healthy Leno and I thought Leno was a bottom 16 LT. 

Also I think just saying "what is the point of having Peters if he can't draft a tackle?" is an oversimplification of a very complex situation.

For example, if Peters trades down and takes Joe Alt or Olu Fashanu, that presumably fixes the LT position, but it's at the cost of losing out on the top QBs. Also, I think the fans would absolutely roast him for the decision (except me 😄😜).

On the flip side he could still take his QBotF and trade up (we have the ammo) for a top tackle. Like I said though the cost would probably be pretty steep. Both seconds and a third could probably get you close to the early teens, but you miss out on a lot of the 30-60 talent range. There are enough holes still on the team, that I feel we need those valuable picks and I would gripe. But I would probably get over it if both the QB and LT position were solved. 

I think we end up staying put in both the 1st and 2nd rounds and take the best QB and the best prospects at the other picks at whatever position. 

[offbyone]

15 minutes ago, Slappy Mc said:

I'm not sure that "lots" of teams have worse than Lucas. I personally think Lucas is a downgrade from a healthy Leno and I thought Leno was a bottom 16 LT. 

Also I think just saying "what is the point of having Peters if he can't draft a tackle?" is an oversimplification of a very complex situation.

For example, if Peters trades down and takes Joe Alt or Olu Fashanu, that presumably fixes the LT position, but it's at the cost of losing out on the top QBs. Also, I think the fans would absolutely roast him for the decision (except me 😄😜).

On the flip side he could still take his QBotF and trade up (we have the ammo) for a top tackle. Like I said though the cost would probably be pretty steep. Both seconds and a third could probably get you close to the early teens, but you miss out on a lot of the 30-60 talent range. There are enough holes still on the team, that I feel we need those valuable picks and I would gripe. But I would probably get over it if both the QB and LT position were solved. 

I think we end up staying put in both the 1st and 2nd rounds and take the best QB and the best prospects at the other picks at whatever position. 

I completely agree about Leno.  I would have kept them both.

I should have said 5 picks in the top 100 because the #2 is going to a qb.

But he needs to find a tackle with those two second picks.  Just like he needs to find a qb with the #2.  If we can't pick good players, then @Slappy Mc is right and we are years away from succeeding.  That might be the case, but then that means we chose wrong with Peters.

Go through the teams.  There are very very few elite left tackles.  New Orleans has no left tackle now.  Dallas has Tyler Smith who has been unsure so far.  

 

[Slappy Mc]

3 minutes ago, offbyone said:

I completely agree about Leno.  I would have kept them both.

I should have said 5 picks in the top 100 because the #2 is going to a qb.

But he needs to find a tackle with those two second picks.  Just like he needs to find a qb with the #2.  If we can't pick good players, then @Slappy Mc is right and we are years away from succeeding.  That might be the case, but then that means we chose wrong with Peters.

Go through the teams.  There are very very few elite left tackles.  New Orleans has no left tackle now.  Dallas has Tyler Smith who has been unsure so far.  

 

Just a few feelings, I think the decision of Peters has already proven to be the correct one, IMO. I think even if Dan Quinn isn't retained, I think Peters will be extended. (I know, I know, it's still way too early for that talk)

The other thing is the tackles that are elite are either enigmas (Terron Armstead) or they are drafted in the 1st round. So we can most likely get a serviceable one, but don't expect a top tier one unless we strike gold. Also, Leno's injury was probably pretty serious to see him still not signed. I wish we upgraded the position though. 

[turtle28]

3 hours ago, lavar703 said:

There is no way they're genuinely comfortable with what we have at LT. I refuse to believe that. I think something happens after the draft if they can't move up for one of the big boys. 

The best FA LT available is Donovan Smith & I'm not sure he's a real upgrade over Lucas.

[RSkinGM]

3 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

The best FA LT available is Donovan Smith & I'm not sure he's a real upgrade over Lucas.

Mekhi Becton-If he can pass a physical and we get a one year show me deal.. Man I'd roll those bones !

[turtle28]

2 hours ago, offbyone said:

I completely agree about Leno.  I would have kept them both.

I should have said 5 picks in the top 100 because the #2 is going to a qb.

But he needs to find a tackle with those two second picks.  Just like he needs to find a qb with the #2.  If we can't pick good players, then @Slappy Mc is right and we are years away from succeeding.  That might be the case, but then that means we chose wrong with Peters.

Go through the teams.  There are very very few elite left tackles.  New Orleans has no left tackle now.  Dallas has Tyler Smith who has been unsure so far.  

 

I know the beat reporters said they don't plan on bringing Leno back but I'm not sure that's 100% out of the equation. I don't think they agree with playing Leno $14 mil. I think there's a possibility if we get to training camp and they don't like what the LT position is showing them that they could re-sign Leno or sign Donovan Smith if he's still available.

I agree with you & @Slappy Mc that if we still had Leno he’d be our projected starter at LT. I too think he's better than Lucas, Leno has been a starting LT for 9 of his 10 seasons in the league. 

In Lucas’s 10 seasons he's only been a spot starter as a 3rd/swing OT for us in the last 4 years. Before we signed him he basically didn't play. I think he's a serviceable OT, but Leno is the better player if healthy as others have said.

Leno is a top 20 starting OT when healthy IMO, Lucas is a back end of the league starting OT or possibly even just a backup on every team. There's a reason he re-signed with us a few years ago when he could of left via FA, and that's bc we were still his best possibility of starting.

 

Edited March 28 by turtle28

[turtle28]

4 minutes ago, RSkinGM said:

Mekhi Becton-If he can pass a physical and we get a one year show me deal.. Man I'd roll those bones !

I'm not opposed to it, especially if we also trade back up to R1 for an OT or take one in R2. 

[ARTMONK HOF]

 

 

Edited March 28 by ARTMONK HOF

[offbyone]

7 hours ago, Slappy Mc said:

Just a few feelings, I think the decision of Peters has already proven to be the correct one, IMO. I think even if Dan Quinn isn't retained, I think Peters will be extended. (I know, I know, it's still way too early for that talk)

The other thing is the tackles that are elite are either enigmas (Terron Armstead) or they are drafted in the 1st round. So we can most likely get a serviceable one, but don't expect a top tier one unless we strike gold. Also, Leno's injury was probably pretty serious to see him still not signed. I wish we upgraded the position though. 

Not much to judge Peters on at this point.  But I am super positive too.  I look forward to hemming and hawing after the draft about his choices.  Interesting thought about quinn.  I agree.  I could see us judging Peters as a success and Quinn as a failure and then Peters getting to make the choice on the next HC.  

Yeah, you might be right on Leno.  That would make sense.  I would assume if he is going to be healthy he has options.  Of course, teams might wait until he is farther along in recovery to offer him real money.

So then you must be open to taking our 2 second round picks and trading up?  The draft trade chart puts that at a top 20 pick.

[naptownskinsfan]

19 hours ago, offbyone said:

Meanwhile we sign 34 year old bobby wagner.  29 isn't old.  

A lot of NFL players do not make it past 30 playing at a high level.  Bobby Wagner is a supreme talent, being named 1st Team All-Pro six times, and 2nd Team All Pro four times.  That’s 10 All-Pro selections in 12 seasons.  He has more All Pro selections than Pro Bowl selections.  By all intents and purposes, Wagner should get into the HOF in his first year of eligibility.  

Jon Allen isn’t in the same talent sphere.  I could absolutely see trading him if the return is good, and he doesn’t want to be here.  Also, the big guys in the trenches can wear down earlier.  

Doesn’t mean Allen can’t have a productive career into his 30’s, but I just want to point out that Wagner is a different breed.  He’s also a great leader and defensive QB.