Aaron Rodgers Announces He's Medically Cleared

[incognito_man]

11 minutes ago, Jlowe22 said:

Please beat the Panthers. 

Thank you.

Please beat the falcons (if the refs let you).

[Jlowe22]

1 minute ago, incognito_man said:

Please beat the falcons (if the refs let you).

Deal, Falcons loss for Panthers loss then.

[JAF-N72EX]

15 hours ago, Pugger said:

Rollins might have been a mistake but drafting Randall was a not a waste. 

Neither have lived up to being first and second round picks. More-so Randall than Rollins in this regard though. 

We seem to have very different views on this then because if I was a coach and was forced to keep one and get rid of the other I would actually choose to keep Rollins over Randall. Especially nowadays when NB's are becoming are gaining more and more value.

 Rollins has shown promise in the slot in dime and nickel packages but has failed miserably on the outside and he was a 2nd round pick. Randall on the other hand was a 1st round pick that has not shown anything that indicates he'll ever be anything more than a roster spot backup that cannot hold his own without a pass rush.

Capers should have actually utilized Rollins' strengths and weaknesses instead of playing against it and this may have ruined him permanently. He was very raw coming out of college with only 1 year experience(IIRC) and showed flashes that he could be a good to very good nickel or dime back in his rookie year. Capers should have kept him there and not try to force him into learning and adjust so much so quickly and ultimately destroy the confidence that he gained while playing at more comfortable position with less responsibilities . Keeping him at NB or DB would have maintained his confidence and would have given him more time to learn, adjust and build off of his performance as a package back. 

Quote

Randall has played much better the past several weeks.

Against who though? The Cleveland Browns? The Bears and Ravens offenses and WR's? The Bucs? The Shu-less Steelers(I think he was out - I could be wrong)? I mean cmon.....

 

16 hours ago, Pugger said:

I also disagree with you criticizing McCarthy for initially starting a veteran over a rookie in King.  I suspect most coaches will start the veteran over a rookie at the start of a season  until the rookie gets some game experience under his belt.

It's not abnormal for teams to start rookies at the DB position. Especially when given the fact that the rookie was a 1st round pick and would be replacing an obvious previous failure at the position. 

16 hours ago, Pugger said:

The bigger issue on our defense IMO is a lack of a pass rush.  You can't allow any QB stand back there forever scanning your defense and not get burned.

In general, I agree that the pass rush is the biggest problem as a whole for the defense. No doubt. But that's still no excuse for both Randall and Dix's regression this year because the Packers defense have actually have pressured the QB more this year than they did last year. In 2016, their pressure percentage was 25.9% of all of attributed pass plays, good for 16th in the league. So far this year, the defensive pressure percentage is 29.5%. So if anything, it only highlights both of their failures.

 

[TENINCH]

10 hours ago, incognito_man said:

Please beat the falcons (if the refs let you).

Please lose the rest of your games  Thank you!

[Acrid Josher]

6 hours ago, JustAnotherFan said:

Neither have lived up to being first and second round picks. More-so Randall than Rollins in this regard though. 

We seem to have very different views on this then because if I was a coach and was forced to keep one and get rid of the other I would actually choose to keep Rollins over Randall. Especially nowadays when NB's are becoming are gaining more and more value.

 Rollins has shown promise in the slot in dime and nickel packages but has failed miserably on the outside and he was a 2nd round pick. Randall on the other hand was a 1st round pick that has not shown anything that indicates he'll ever be anything more than a roster spot backup that cannot hold his own without a pass rush.

Capers should have actually utilized Rollins' strengths and weaknesses instead of playing against it and this may have ruined him permanently. He was very raw coming out of college with only 1 year experience(IIRC) and showed flashes that he could be a good to very good nickel or dime back in his rookie year. Capers should have kept him there and not try to force him into learning and adjust so much so quickly and ultimately destroy the confidence that he gained while playing at more comfortable position with less responsibilities . Keeping him at NB or DB would have maintained his confidence and would have given him more time to learn, adjust and build off of his performance as a package back. 

 

You aren't seeing what most of us are seeing. Randall has been one of the best players on the defense this year even including the rocky first month. It's hard to argue anyone has been better than him since the Bears game. He's the been the best corner on the roster and his play suggests not that he will never be "anything more than a roster spot backup" but on the contrary that he should be a cornerstone of this defense (health permitting) for many years. CB2 level at least, possible CB one if he can maintain the high level of play he's shown of late.

Rollins on the other hand had a small minority of flash plays as a rookie, then regressed as a 2nd year player. His life wasn't made any easier when we were devastated by injuries in the secondary including our top two outside guys. Rollins wasn't asked to play outside because Capers didn't know how to use him- he was a preferred nickel player until the injuries- he was asked to play outside because at one point we had lost four of our top six CBs on the depth chart and had no bodies. That isn't a situation where you can try to use soft gloves to give someone confidence- you play whoever is available that has a chance of getting the job done.

Also weird to trash Randall if you value the slot- he was playing plenty in the slot earlier this year- especially when King was available to play outside- with promising results. It's not like he's limited to outside play.

[Pugger]

8 hours ago, JustAnotherFan said:

Neither have lived up to being first and second round picks. More-so Randall than Rollins in this regard though. 

We seem to have very different views on this then because if I was a coach and was forced to keep one and get rid of the other I would actually choose to keep Rollins over Randall. Especially nowadays when NB's are becoming are gaining more and more value.

 Rollins has shown promise in the slot in dime and nickel packages but has failed miserably on the outside and he was a 2nd round pick. Randall on the other hand was a 1st round pick that has not shown anything that indicates he'll ever be anything more than a roster spot backup that cannot hold his own without a pass rush.

Capers should have actually utilized Rollins' strengths and weaknesses instead of playing against it and this may have ruined him permanently. He was very raw coming out of college with only 1 year experience(IIRC) and showed flashes that he could be a good to very good nickel or dime back in his rookie year. Capers should have kept him there and not try to force him into learning and adjust so much so quickly and ultimately destroy the confidence that he gained while playing at more comfortable position with less responsibilities . Keeping him at NB or DB would have maintained his confidence and would have given him more time to learn, adjust and build off of his performance as a package back. 

Against who though? The Cleveland Browns? The Bears and Ravens offenses and WR's? The Bucs? The Shu-less Steelers(I think he was out - I could be wrong)? I mean cmon.....

 

It's not abnormal for teams to start rookies at the DB position. Especially when given the fact that the rookie was a 1st round pick and would be replacing an obvious previous failure at the position. 

In general, I agree that the pass rush is the biggest problem as a whole for the defense. No doubt. But that's still no excuse for both Randall and Dix's regression this year because the Packers defense have actually have pressured the QB more this year than they did last year. In 2016, their pressure percentage was 25.9% of all of attributed pass plays, good for 16th in the league. So far this year, the defensive pressure percentage is 29.5%. So if anything, it only highlights both of their failures.

 

Rollins is slow and now with an Achilles injury - you do realize he's been on IR since Oct. 16th? - he'll be even slower next year.  I'll be surprised if he is on the roster in 2018.  With our issues in the secondary drafting someone this raw in the 2nd round was probably the mistake.  So far Randall has 4 INTs - 2 less than the league leaders.  His play wasn't great last year and the beginning of this but is coming around and right now might be our best corner albeit because of injury.  If we are generating all this pressure why do mediocre QBs look like Tom Brady at times when they play us?  Most Packers fans are weary of Dom Capers and pray he retires this offseason.  Our defenses have been pedestrian at best under his tutelage since 2010.  We fans also believe an EDGE player is our #1 need going into next year.

[Malfatron]

16 hours ago, Jlowe22 said:

16 hours ago, incognito_man said:

Please beat the falcons (if the refs let you).

Deal, Falcons loss for Panthers loss then.

Done. Consider the alliance on.

Don't Frey us now.

[Malfatron]

5 hours ago, TENINCH said:

16 hours ago, incognito_man said:

Please beat the falcons (if the refs let you).

Please lose the rest of your games  Thank you!

No deal.

 

[JBURGE]

6 hours ago, TENINCH said:

16 hours ago, incognito_man said:

Please beat the falcons (if the refs let you).

Please lose the rest of your games  Thank you!

you just need one!

[Arthur Penske]

On 12/13/2017 at 7:29 AM, SteelKing728 said:

At best, I don't see this being enough to get them past the wildcard round.

Even if Rodgers isn't at 100% and more like 80%, that's still astronomically better than what Brett Hundley will ever be.

 

I mean, to be fair Rodgers at 80% is astronomically better than like 99.8% of QBs.

[JaguarCrazy2832]

On 12/13/2017 at 7:02 PM, packerrfan74 said:

Maybe not the final 2 weeks, but you best believe he will be playing against Minnesota. Primetime, Saturday Night, against the team that put him out.

Show up and show MIN that they’re winning the division this year because of his absence. (no disrespect to the Vikes who are a hell of a team this year)

Isnt that foolish though? He has nothing to prove to them

[JAF-N72EX]

15 hours ago, Acrid Josher said:

Randall has been one of the best players on the defense this year even including the rocky first month.

15 hours ago, Acrid Josher said:

He's the been the best corner on the roster

15 hours ago, Acrid Josher said:

he should be a cornerstone of this defense (health permitting) for many years.

Oh boy......Randall, is that you? It has to be.

Best players don't get benched.

He may not even be the third best defensive back this year in a terrible secondary, much less the best corner and defiantly not the entire defense. 

And did you really just call Randall a cornerstone for years? 

15 hours ago, Acrid Josher said:

he was playing plenty in the slot earlier this year especially when King was available to play outside- with promising results.

Yeah, no. You may wanna go back and do a fact check on this. 

13 hours ago, Pugger said:

Rollins is slow and now with an Achilles injury - you do realize he's been on IR since Oct. 16th? - he'll be even slower next year.  I'll be surprised if he is on the roster in 2018.  With our issues in the secondary drafting someone this raw in the 2nd round was probably the mistake.  So far Randall has 4 INTs - 2 less than the league leaders.  His play wasn't great last year and the beginning of this but is coming around and right now might be our best corner albeit because of injury.  If we are generating all this pressure why do mediocre QBs look like Tom Brady at times when they play us?  Most Packers fans are weary of Dom Capers and pray he retires this offseason.  Our defenses have been pedestrian at best under his tutelage since 2010.  We fans also believe an EDGE player is our #1 need going into next year.

If you're going to use raw numbers to prop a guy up, at least post some others as well and not just cherry-pick the ones that make him look good. 

Facts: His 4 INT's is tied with about a dozen others. He is also something like 50th or 60th in the league in PD. You're also forgetting to add that two of those INT's were not even a result of his own play. One came on a tipped pass by Martinez who made an athletic play and the other was a ball that bounced out of the receivers arms. Coincidentally, he was beaten on both plays and was saved by those results. I hardly call that impressive. 

As far as far as the pass pressure goes. I never said they were generating all of this pressure. I said that they were getting more pressure this year than last season.

 

 

[Acrid Josher]

 

31 minutes ago, JustAnotherFan said:

Oh boy......Randall, is that you? It has to be.

Best players don't get benched.

He may not even be the third best defensive back this year in a terrible secondary, much less the best corner and defiantly not the entire defense. 

And did you really just call Randall a cornerstone for years? 

Yeah, no. You may wanna go back and do a fact check on this. 

If you're going to use raw numbers to prop a guy up, at least post some others as well and not just cherry-pick the ones that make him look good. 

Facts: His 4 INT's is tied with about a dozen others. He is also something like 50th or 60th in the league in PD. You're also forgetting to add that two of those INT's were not even a result of his own play. One came on a tipped pass by Martinez who made an athletic play and the other was a ball that bounced out of the receivers arms. Coincidentally, he was beaten on both plays and was saved by those results. I hardly call that impressive. 

As far as far as the pass pressure goes. I never said they were generating all of this pressure. I said that they were getting more pressure this year than last season.

 

 

You can loudly state you are right all you want, declaring I need to find stats to back up my opinion, but the reality is you are in the minority here on the quality of CB play in question (a notoriously difficult position to put conventional stats to) so if you want stats instead of observations (and all you've provided are your own opinions) then the onus is on you to introduce an objective measure.

Fact: Only five players in the NFL have more interceptions have more INTs than Randall. Have you broken down their tape with such a critical eye to make sure each and every one only earned their count with flawless throws and even more flawless play? Nobody "cheated" as you seem to imply by having teammates help or a ball tipped or underthrown?

Interceptions are a terrible metric for judging CBs. They are rare, high swing events influenced heavily by chance. On that we agree. But if you are trying to use interceptions against Randall you're gonna fall flat. That's to his credit this year.

Similarly PD, while more common, are a metric prone to noise. Some of the best corners won't have flashy PD numbers because they are busy making it a bad idea to even attempt a throw in their direction. The more vulnerable your coverage, the more attempts to deflect passes you get.

I'd be more than happy to use yards per coverage snap if I still had PFF access, perhaps someone here can provide that or a similar metric. There are problems with this as well (mostly due to the difficulty of assignments and graders correctly identifying responsibility) but in general the high sample size smooths out the noise and makes this a much better number on which to judge CB play.

However barring those numbers, all we have is film and numbers like receptions and yards allowed. The tv copy looks good and the receptions and yards the last two months have confirmed that. You're sure that numbers and film are wrong, so go ahead and prove that he's a JAG or worse.

 

 

[JAF-N72EX]

28 minutes ago, Acrid Josher said:

 

You can loudly state you are right all you want, declaring I need to find stats to back up my opinion, but the reality is you are in the minority here on the quality of CB play in question (a notoriously difficult position to put conventional stats to) so if you want stats instead of observations (and all you've provided are your own opinions) then the onus is on you to introduce an objective measure.

Fact: Only five players in the NFL have more interceptions have more INTs than Randall. Have you broken down their tape with such a critical eye to make sure each and every one only earned their count with flawless throws and even more flawless play? Nobody "cheated" as you seem to imply by having teammates help or a ball tipped or underthrown?

Interceptions are a terrible metric for judging CBs. They are rare, high swing events influenced heavily by chance. On that we agree. But if you are trying to use interceptions against Randall you're gonna fall flat. That's to his credit this year.

Similarly PD, while more common, are a metric prone to noise. Some of the best corners won't have flashy PD numbers because they are busy making it a bad idea to even attempt a throw in their direction. The more vulnerable your coverage, the more attempts to deflect passes you get.

I'd be more than happy to use yards per coverage snap if I still had PFF access, perhaps someone here can provide that or a similar metric. There are problems with this as well (mostly due to the difficulty of assignments and graders correctly identifying responsibility) but in general the high sample size smooths out the noise and makes this a much better number on which to judge CB play.

However barring those numbers, all we have is film and numbers like receptions and yards allowed. The tv copy looks good and the receptions and yards the last two months have confirmed that. You're sure that numbers and film are wrong, so go ahead and prove that he's a JAG or worse.

 

 

I have already provided more than just my opinions. On the other hand all I have heard from any of YOU are opinions with nothing to back them except; The pass rush makes him look bad, Randall is a cornerstone, he has 4 INT's and that he's playing better against the Bears, Bucs, Browns and Steelers offenses. 

And for god-sakes, don't bring PFF into this. This conversation is already getting ugly as it is. We don't need that trash either.  All of this info is readily available from much better sites.

All in all, we will all have definitive proof one way or the other within the next 2 years when it comes time to decide whether he is worth a second contract. 

 

[SteelKing728]

17 hours ago, ArthurPensky said:

I mean, to be fair Rodgers at 80% is astronomically better than like 99.8% of QBs.

True. He'll never be as good as Brady, but true.