EMAW_KSU Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 Passed over again for head coaching opportunities. In a year when 4 minority coaches were hired Bienemy certainly had more credentials than some of the hires. Pat mentioned in an interview that Bienemy was the guy that held people accountable, something that I think we saw lacking this season. Not to mention that Nagy seems to call trick plays at the most terrible moments. Or where against the Ravens where out of 6 plays 4 were screens that got about 3 total yards, might actually be less but I can’t remember if one was a negative play or incomplete. So I said all that to say this, would/should KC bring him back, in a similar role to what they did with Nagy? All the dropped passes and penalties sure seems like someone focusing on accountability could help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onejayhawk Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 The offense missed EB this year but they eventually found their way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedGold Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 I mean if he wants to come back, Everyone should welcome him back with open arms. I do hope he continues to do what’s best for him though 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EMAW_KSU Posted February 3 Author Share Posted February 3 13 hours ago, RedGold said: I mean if he wants to come back, Everyone should welcome him back with open arms. I do hope he continues to do what’s best for him though Absolutely, that’s most important, I personally just think our offense was lesser with Nagy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakuvious Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 Offense was lesser, but I really don't think it had anything to do with Nagy. Playcallers are just the easiest scapegoats in football when things aren't going well. That said, I'd happily take EB back in whatever form would work. Assistant HC, OC, position coach, consultant, whatever. Definitely a positive asset overall. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EMAW_KSU Posted February 4 Author Share Posted February 4 17 hours ago, Jakuvious said: Offense was lesser, but I really don't think it had anything to do with Nagy. Playcallers are just the easiest scapegoats in football when things aren't going well. That said, I'd happily take EB back in whatever form would work. Assistant HC, OC, position coach, consultant, whatever. Definitely a positive asset overall. I just think we saw a lot of poor/repetitive play calling under Nagy, which was one of many issues he had in Chicago. Combine that with the sloppy play and bring the most penalized offense in football. If EB wants to come back and cleans any 1 of those up it would make a significant impact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onejayhawk Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 Eliminating the sloppy play was the sort of thing EB excelled at. It took a cold slap in the face to get this year's offense to stay focused. They got one in the form of a home loss to the Raiders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakuvious Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 7 hours ago, EMAW_KSU said: I just think we saw a lot of poor/repetitive play calling under Nagy, which was one of many issues he had in Chicago. Combine that with the sloppy play and bring the most penalized offense in football. If EB wants to come back and cleans any 1 of those up it would make a significant impact. Play calling I really can't say definitively either way, because it isn't something I've dug deep into this year. But I think play calling is a very, very easy scapegoat for fans, generally. Team runs on 3rd and 1 and fails, they're too predictable. Team passes and fails, they're too cute, it's 3rd and 1, why didn't you just run? People's opinions on play calling are almost always results based analysis, rather than a review of the process, and it's almost always flawed as a result. Sometimes bad play calls succeed. Sometimes good ones fail. On broadcast we're rarely seeing enough of the trends and schemes to actually say whether the call was good or not. We just see the result. For the rest, I just don't get blaming that on the OC. For one, the difference from past years hasn't actually been that egregious. In 20 games we're at 106 penalties. Last year, in 20, we were at 97. 117 in 2021. 126 in 2020. We haven't really been a clean team in terms of penalties in years. And the difference from 2022 to 2023 is basically made up of false starts. 8 in 2022, 19 this year. Like, I know it's a popular narrative, this idea of coaches holding guys accountable, but like...they're adults. They're professionals. Maybe EB would yell a little more than Nagy. If that's what's needed for the team to false start less, I have far more serious concerns about the team than the OC. The reality is, we added the 5th most penalized player in football in 2021, and the 2nd most penalized player in football in 2022. Of course penalties went up, especially on the OL. The team decided those players were worth it despite those trends. We can talk about that, and whether those were smart personnel decisions. But I don't think Matt Nagy is the reason that Jawaan Taylor false started as much as he did. I don't think he's the reason Toney set records for lost EPA or DVOA or whatever per target, because the dude had catastrophic drops. He's no more the reason that MVS had drop and ball tracking issues all year, than he is the reason that MVS has been lights out in the postseason. It's just easier to try to blame one guy than to say well maybe several players were flawed, and the issue is more nuanced than that. And this was hilariously predictable, too. Even though Nagy led the offense to it's best result the entire Alex Smith era, it was obvious he'd be blamed if anything went wrong. Like, I get it, he was crap in Chicago, but it's a different job. His offenses in Chicago were no worse than Spags's defenses in St. Louis. To me, it's just people looking for the easy answer rather than the real one. Reality is, we went with two known penalty committing OTs, because we decided the value (in the case of Smith) and quality (in the case of Taylor) were worth the drawbacks. Results were mixed but suffered from the spotlight week one shined on Taylor. We thought we could roll with a mixed bag at WR like we did last year, but underestimated just how outrageously bad Toney could be, and how much Moore and MVS would struggle to read coverages and get open. I could maybe buy someone like Moore not being developed being on the coaching staff. But the rest of the culprits of the big mistakes on O have been around long enough. They should know how to catch, they should know how to line up, they should know how to time the snap. Nagy shouldn't be teaching those guys things like that, at this stage. So it's foolish to me to blame those kinds of errors on him. Sorry, long rant. And not all of this is at you. But there's a lot of this on Twitter and Reddit, too, so some of my reaction is probably that. Like, people literally saying all the successful plays and games were probably called by Reid, and the bad games and plays by Nagy. Which is just ludicrous. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakuvious Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 2 hours ago, onejayhawk said: Eliminating the sloppy play was the sort of thing EB excelled at. It took a cold slap in the face to get this year's offense to stay focused. They got one in the form of a home loss to the Raiders. Honest question, what makes you say this? Genuine question, and not necessarily saying that you're wrong. But I feel like the only reason anyone thinks this is because occasionally we saw EB look kind of angry. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onejayhawk Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 3 minutes ago, Jakuvious said: Honest question, what makes you say this? Genuine question, and not necessarily saying that you're wrong. But I feel like the only reason anyone thinks this is because occasionally we saw EB look kind of angry. Bieniemy was less about Xs and Os than execution. Theory and play design is where Ried lives. EB was known for getting the grill over a mistake. When a disciplinarian leaves, Someone will usually step into the role. That someone was not Nagy. Things drifted a bit until the LV game that served as a wake up call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EMAW_KSU Posted February 5 Author Share Posted February 5 (edited) 18 hours ago, Jakuvious said: Honest question, what makes you say this? Genuine question, and not necessarily saying that you're wrong. But I feel like the only reason anyone thinks this is because occasionally we saw EB look kind of angry. Pat came out and said that EB held players more accountable. And don’t worry about having a contrary opinion to mine, I’m cool with discussion. Mostly I think we were at our best with both in house, so if that option exists, I’m not mad about it. I think there’s a chance Toney/MVS and Moore could be gone next year so having coaches that can come in and build that room dynamic in a hurry will be important. Moore could stay because he’s on a rookie contract, but considering a drunk monkey may contribute more, it may make sense to replace him with another draft pick. Edited February 5 by EMAW_KSU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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