redsoxsuck05 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 2 hours ago, Danger said: Peter King seems to think they're gonna trade the #1 pick. It's be peak bears and peak stupidity I think it's just cute little GM tactics. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky151 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 The 5 year vs 2 year contract distinction is pretty trivial. Fields has improved as a passer each season. Last season he finally had 1 legitimate receiver. DJ Moore was ranked 10th in the league by PFF. No other Bears WR made the top 100 so calling him a 1 read QB is misleading. Yes, QB rushing ability is useful. His 1100 yard season in 2022 is why his ESPN QBR was better than Trevor Lawrence's despite the Jags better record. Last year Fields led the Bears in rushing yards and rushing TDs, ie he had not much at RB to keep defenses honest. But at least he had a good o-line, right? Nope. The center position was a particular weakness with Patrick rated 30th overall and even worse at pass blocking. Fields faced consistent pressure up the middle. The tackles were ok and Jenkins good at LG. RG wasn't very good but not the disaster that center was. So he was the running game, had 1 good WR plus an ok TE, and faced pressure up the middle consistently. Getsy tried to make chicken salad with that and called lots of screens. Lots of screens. They didn't work very well and the offense overall was poor. If you plug Caleb Williams into that, he'll struggle too. Sort of like when his production fell from 2022 to 2023 as his O-line and WR corps got weaker. If the Bears do something like King speculates they could, they would certainly have a better roster in 2024 and be more likely to make the playoffs this season. The out years would be the question but that's entirely a projection on whichever rookie prospect you like. If you take the view that in the NFL the future is now, then keeping Fields would be the right move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 7 minutes ago, sparky151 said: The 5 year vs 2 year contract distinction is pretty trivial. No... no it's not at all. And the simple fact is Caleb Williams is better right now and has a higher ceiling than Fields. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOUCAN Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 2 minutes ago, Danger said: No... no it's not at all. And the simple fact is Caleb Williams is better right now and has a higher ceiling than Fields. I think it’s hard to definitively say he’s better at this very moment considering he hasn’t taken a snap. I don’t really enjoy those analyses 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 2 minutes ago, TOUCAN said: I think it’s hard to definitively say he’s better at this very moment considering he hasn’t taken a snap. I don’t really enjoy those analyses It's not so much me being super high on Williams, as I think Fields is bottom tier QB. To me he's nothing more than a more agile Daniel Jones. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nagahide13 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 1 hour ago, sparky151 said: DJ Moore was ranked 10th in the league by PFF. No other Bears WR made the top 100 so calling him a 1 read QB is misleading. This is fallacious on several levels. He's a 1 read QB because he stares down a predetermined target, doesn't read defenses and never even looks at anyone except his predetermined target. It has nothing to do with who the receivers are and it doesn't mean that he only throws to DJ Moore. The Bears also have Cole Kmet, a very very good receiving TE that was easily top 10 in 2023. The absolute top of the QB spectrum is Patrick Mahomes. He has (arguably) less to work with than Fields. Nobody thinks he's a single read QB. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 1 hour ago, sparky151 said: Last year Fields led the Bears in rushing yards and rushing TDs, ie he had not much at RB to keep defenses honest. I disagree that the RBs were "not much." Herbert injured his ankle trying to snag one of the many short, easy throws Fields flubbed. Even with that ankle hobbling him he still put up 4.6 ypc. Foreman got under 4ypc but he was over 4 in every game he got 10+ runs except 1. He was often used for short yardage so that damaged his numbers. Johnson got over 4 ypc in spot duty as well. Fields got a LOT of his rushing yards based on break downs in the passing games. And him being tied for the lead in rushing TDs is because of injuries and rotations, not because they're not productive. I mean he accounted for 4 of 16 rushing TDs. If anything Fields throwing was more of what couldnt keep defenses honest. You stop the run game (containing Fields as well with that) and force him to beat you with his arm and youve got a damn good chance to beat him. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 1 hour ago, sparky151 said: No other Bears WR made the top 100 so calling him a 1 read QB is misleading. 1 hour ago, sparky151 said: plus an ok TE The “ok TE” was 12th in PFF rating, fam. You never answered my question earlier about which games showed Fields’ upside as a passer? You thought he was volatile, but it really seems like he’s more just…pretty bad. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 This is looking like last year’s Desmond Ridder thread. It’s not his fault, it’s the OL, it’s the receivers, it’s the coaching, he just needs more experience. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 1 hour ago, Soko said: This is looking like last year’s Desmond Ridder thread. It’s not his fault, it’s the OL, it’s the receivers, it’s the coaching, he just needs more experience. I think there have been a number of reasons that each of those has been a hindrance for him, but I also think he has limited them as well. Chicago did screw him over, but he missed a lot of opportunities that were squarely on him. It isn't all on Chicago by any means. He simply missed too many open throws and needs to have an offense specifically tailored around his strengths (Getsy being too stupid to understand that hurts for sure though). But even if each of those were resolved he likely still isn't someone you turn away Williams or Maye for. He is too raw of a passer at this level after 3 years in and is too inconsistent with his accuracy. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 16 minutes ago, Sugashane said: I think there have been a number of reasons that each of those has been a hindrance for him, but I also think he has limited them as well. Chicago did screw him over, but he missed a lot of opportunities that were squarely on him. It isn't all on Chicago by any means. He simply missed too many open throws and needs to have an offense specifically tailored around his strengths (Getsy being too stupid to understand that hurts for sure though). But even if each of those were resolved he likely still isn't someone you turn away Williams or Maye for. He is too raw of a passer at this level after 3 years in and is too inconsistent with his accuracy. Bingo bango. The Bears were really bad offensively prior to 2023, and that didn’t help Fields at all. But even accounting for those things, you still need to see more flashes. Too many broad side of a barn throws, too much keying in on the first read. It’s both of them. The Raiders did it for years, making endless excuses for Derek Carr because things were never perfect for him. And I don’t view Fields at the level of Carr as a passer. Both teams and fans need to be more willing to cut the cord. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicMT Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 2 hours ago, Soko said: This is looking like last year’s Desmond Ridder this year's Trevor Lawrence thread. It’s not his fault, it’s the OL, it’s the receivers, it’s the coaching, it's just bad luck nothing to do with him 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsoxsuck05 Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 (edited) It's funny looking at pro-football-reference.com and seeing all the first round QBs who took sometimes more than 5 years to hit their stride. Bartkowski, Fouts, Bradshaw, Hart, Simms, and Todd are the ones off the top of my head. It's kind of sad how a lot of our favorite QBs from back in the day wouldn't get the rope to succeed nowadays. Edited February 27 by redsoxsuck05 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 I'd trade Justin Fields for a conditional 2025 pick, if he balls and meets certain thresholds I'd ask for a 2nd back, if he doesn't / isn't resigned it'd be like a 4th. Then trade #1 to the Commanders for #2, #36, and a 1 or 2 in 2025. And finally I'd take Drake Maye at #2. Add a second round pick, land a franchise QB, while also adding two more premium picks in 2025. Commanders can land the hometown kid in Caleb Williams and reunite him with Kliff. I think allowing a team to keep their draft capital while also giving yourself a chance at a better pick in 2025 is ideal for both sides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 On 2/25/2024 at 12:36 PM, sparky151 said: The contract issue is pretty resolvable if Fields likes his destination. He's eligible for a new contract now so a team doesn't have to simply exercise his 5th year option. They can just work out a new deal with incentives that serve both player and team. There are only two ways you guarantee Fields is on your roster next year: Pick up his 5th year option for $25M before you've seen him play Franchise tag him at like $40M I don't really see him signing an extension in season. If he's playing well enough for his new team to even consider resigning him it'd be in his best interest to force the team to either tag him or be able to negotiate with any team that he wants to play for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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