Sugashane Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 7 hours ago, NYRaider said: There are only two ways you guarantee Fields is on your roster next year: Pick up his 5th year option for $25M before you've seen him play Franchise tag him at like $40M I don't really see him signing an extension in season. If he's playing well enough for his new team to even consider resigning him it'd be in his best interest to force the team to either tag him or be able to negotiate with any team that he wants to play for. His agent is the same one Jordan Love has, so they may do a short deal like Love did with GB. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 This is one of few scenarios that could move me off drafting Caleb. If Wash offered enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 1 hour ago, dll2000 said: This is one of few scenarios that could move me off drafting Caleb. If Wash offered enough. While I believe pretty much nothing at this point, if Maye is graded really closely to Williams (or higher) by Poles and the scouts then that would be a no brainer. If you absolutely feel Williams is the better prospect then you don't even look at the deal and pick Williams. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamondbull424 Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 If I’m the Bears I trade both Fields and the #1 pick and load up plus reset with Jayden Daniels. I would add a veteran QB so I don’t have to force Daniels out there initially if I don’t think he’s 100% ready. Maybe sit him half the season at least. Personally I just don’t see what’s so special about Caleb Williams but if a team feels he’s that guy, then I’d let them have him as I load up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 8 minutes ago, Sugashane said: While I believe pretty much nothing at this point, if Maye is graded really closely to Williams (or higher) by Poles and the scouts then that would be a no brainer. If you absolutely feel Williams is the better prospect then you don't even look at the deal and pick Williams. Obviously, I have to feel Maye is really good to do this deal. But if I did .... I definitely am listening to a large Wash offer. Even if I feel Caleb is better. It would be a hard call. For me the call to keep or trade Fields isn't that difficult. He is being traded if I am in charge and is not my starting QB in 2024. And I say that as a guy who feels he can turn his career around still and be really good. I am just playing the odds. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 Poles presser didn't say Fields is being traded, but said if he was being traded they want to get it done ASAP and before FA. Sounds like a trade is going to happen to me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 I agree with this: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 If CHI trades Fields, any trade down from 1.1 would need to keep them in range to get a Rookie (Maye or Daniels....unless they think McCarthy is enough to drop back to like pick 6-8 range) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky151 Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 20 hours ago, Danger said: No... no it's not at all. And the simple fact is Caleb Williams is better right now and has a higher ceiling than Fields. The contract thing is trivial because Fields doesn't have a lot of bargaining power at the moment. He'd certainly accept the Jordan-Love-split-the-difference contract if offered. Probably with a couple of option years tacked on at 25 or 30 mil as well. He may well accept the same deal the top pick will get. If you were unaware, the top pick will have higher cap hits combined for 2024 and 2025 than Fields rookie deal has if his 5th year option is exercised. Fields would possibly be more expensive in 2026 and beyond if he plays well. What's your basis for claiming Wiliams is better today than Fields? Simply your dislike for Fields? If you are basing it on comparing Williams college stats to Fields NFL stats, that's a mistake. For what it's worth, Fields had similar passing stats to Williams entering the NFL. Slightly better actually. If it's just your eye test, fine, everyone has an opinion. 18 hours ago, nagahide13 said: This is fallacious on several levels. He's a 1 read QB because he stares down a predetermined target, doesn't read defenses and never even looks at anyone except his predetermined target. It has nothing to do with who the receivers are and it doesn't mean that he only throws to DJ Moore. The Bears also have Cole Kmet, a very very good receiving TE that was easily top 10 in 2023. The absolute top of the QB spectrum is Patrick Mahomes. He has (arguably) less to work with than Fields. Nobody thinks he's a single read QB. He has 1 read because he has 1 legit downfield receiver. His center was a terrible blocker and his RG below average. So he faced constant pressure up the middle. Kmet is a good TE but unless he's a downfield threat, it limits the offense. That's not Cole's fault, it's due to not having good options at WR2 and 3. So Getsy calls screen after screen. Mahomes has a much better O-line than Fields. 18 hours ago, Sugashane said: I disagree that the RBs were "not much." Herbert injured his ankle trying to snag one of the many short, easy throws Fields flubbed. Even with that ankle hobbling him he still put up 4.6 ypc. Foreman got under 4ypc but he was over 4 in every game he got 10+ runs except 1. He was often used for short yardage so that damaged his numbers. Johnson got over 4 ypc in spot duty as well. Fields got a LOT of his rushing yards based on break downs in the passing games. And him being tied for the lead in rushing TDs is because of injuries and rotations, not because they're not productive. I mean he accounted for 4 of 16 rushing TDs. If anything Fields throwing was more of what couldnt keep defenses honest. You stop the run game (containing Fields as well with that) and force him to beat you with his arm and youve got a damn good chance to beat him. The Bears used a RB committee last year but it wasn't very effective. I agree that Fields got most of his yards on scrambles rather than called QB runs. But he was running a lot because of a poor O-line. He did have a legit downfield target in Moore so he didn't have to run as much as in 2022. I agree that the Bears weren't going to beat a lot of teams either running or throwing. It's why they came up short when they needed a first down to close out a couple of games. But that is fixable in free agency. 18 hours ago, Soko said: The “ok TE” was 12th in PFF rating, fam. You never answered my question earlier about which games showed Fields’ upside as a passer? You thought he was volatile, but it really seems like he’s more just…pretty bad. Yes, Kmet is ok. 12th is decent but not close to pro bowl but also not so bad the team wants to upgrade from you. Bowers would be an upgrade but probably nobody else in this draft would be. If you look at the PFF ratings by game, Fields is green in passing for weeks 4, 17, 14,12,3 and 5. He's yellow on weeks 6, 18, 16, and 11. He was graded as overall green on the latter 2 weeks, btw. He graded orange for weeks 1, 2, and 15. 18 hours ago, Soko said: This is looking like last year’s Desmond Ridder thread. It’s not his fault, it’s the OL, it’s the receivers, it’s the coaching, he just needs more experience. Any young QB would benefit from better coaching, more experience, and a better surrounding cast. Ridder had more of that in Atlanta than Fields had in Chicago. I doubt anyone here would disagree that Fields remaining upside is more than Ridder's. That's why Fields has trade value exceeding Ridder's. 11 hours ago, NYRaider said: There are only two ways you guarantee Fields is on your roster next year: Pick up his 5th year option for $25M before you've seen him play Franchise tag him at like $40M I don't really see him signing an extension in season. If he's playing well enough for his new team to even consider resigning him it'd be in his best interest to force the team to either tag him or be able to negotiate with any team that he wants to play for. Any team considering trading for Fields would want to speak with him (which requires the Bears permission). Part of that conversation will be contractual. The Bears certainly had conversations about an extension with Sweat's agent before completing the trade and if there are any tag and trade deals this offseason, those will include contracts agreed to before the trade is submitted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky151 Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 1 hour ago, dll2000 said: Poles presser didn't say Fields is being traded, but said if he was being traded they want to get it done ASAP and before FA. Sounds like a trade is going to happen to me. Well sure Poles said that. The potential market for Fields will shrink once teams sign Cousins or Wilson or Mayfield and once they've spent their cap space at other positiions. He wants to be the first option for any potential Fields suitor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 (edited) 7 minutes ago, sparky151 said: Yes, Kmet is ok. 12th is decent but not close to pro bowl but also not so bad the team wants to upgrade from you. Bowers would be an upgrade but probably nobody else in this draft would be. If 12th is “ok”, then that makes Fields at 20+ really bad, right? 7 minutes ago, sparky151 said: If you look at the PFF ratings by game, Fields is green in passing for weeks 4, 17, 14,12,3 and 5. He's yellow on weeks 6, 18, 16, and 11. He was graded as overall green on the latter 2 weeks, btw. He graded orange for weeks 1, 2, and 15. I don’t look at PFF ratings. Is it your opinion that Fields showed good passing ability in those games? 7 minutes ago, sparky151 said: Any young QB would benefit from better coaching, more experience, and a better surrounding cast. Ridder had more of that in Atlanta than Fields had in Chicago. I doubt anyone here would disagree that Fields remaining upside is more than Ridder's. That's why Fields has trade value exceeding Ridder's. Point went over your head. Commenting on the state of things that there’ll always be fans that’ll spend years blaming everyone but the QB, only for them years later to finally accept that the player isn’t good. Fields had a lot of things working against him, as many QBs do. It doesn’t excuse his awful play. Edited February 27 by Soko Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 27 minutes ago, sparky151 said: The contract thing is trivial because Fields doesn't have a lot of bargaining power at the moment. He'd certainly accept the Jordan-Love-split-the-difference contract if offered. Probably with a couple of option years tacked on at 25 or 30 mil as well. He may well accept the same deal the top pick will get. If you were unaware, the top pick will have higher cap hits combined for 2024 and 2025 than Fields rookie deal has if his 5th year option is exercised. Fields would possibly be more expensive in 2026 and beyond if he plays well. What's your basis for claiming Wiliams is better today than Fields? Simply your dislike for Fields? If you are basing it on comparing Williams college stats to Fields NFL stats, that's a mistake. For what it's worth, Fields had similar passing stats to Williams entering the NFL. Slightly better actually. If it's just your eye test, fine, everyone has an opinion. 3 more years of having $40-50 Million more each year to pay other players rather a QB is a massive gulf in available resources. To say otherwise is foolish contrarianism. My basis is Justin Fields after his 3rd season has still not shown us any reason to believe he can actually read NFL defenses, if he hasn't at this point, why should I believe he ever will? He might have some physical traits, but he's just not it, he hasn't put it together, and I see zero reason to believe he's going to moving forward. It has absolutely nothing to do with stats, that's a stupid argument for you to even insinuate. Relying on Fields moving forward is more or less the epitome of sunk-cost fallacy. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaddHatter Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 14 minutes ago, Danger said: 3 more years of having $40-50 Million more each year to pay other players rather a QB is a massive gulf in available resources. To say otherwise is foolish contrarianism. My basis is Justin Fields after his 3rd season has still not shown us any reason to believe he can actually read NFL defenses, if he hasn't at this point, why should I believe he ever will? He might have some physical traits, but he's just not it, he hasn't put it together, and I see zero reason to believe he's going to moving forward. It has absolutely nothing to do with stats, that's a stupid argument for you to even insinuate. Relying on Fields moving forward is more or less the epitome of sunk-cost fallacy. I agree with you - UNLESS, you are 100% on the train that none of this year's QB's are actually going to be better in the NFL, and you can trade down, take a haul, continue to build your team elsewhere, and end up with a Manning in 2026 where you may have 4-5 first round picks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 27 minutes ago, sparky151 said: If you look at the PFF ratings by game, Fields is green in passing for weeks 4, 17, 14,12,3 and 5. Week 4 blow out vs KC - Fields completed 11 passes (50%), under 100 yards, threw an INT because he couldn’t see a defender directly in his line of sight, had a 58.7 passer rating, and didn’t lead a scoring drive until garbage time. Blown out 41-10. I know KC is an elite defense, but that doesn’t mean a terrible performance is suddenly a good one. Week 4 vs Denver, Fields delivered, even though the Broncos D sucked. Week 5 vs Washington, Fields delivered, even though Washington’s D sucked. Week 12 vs Vikings, 12-10 victory. Fields threw maybe 50 screen passes, and didn’t throw his 4th pass of 10+ yards until the GWD. Over half of Moore’s receiving yards were YAC. Took him 37 throws to muster up 217 yards of offense, around half was YAC. Pass. Week 14 vs Detroit, decent game. Not incredible, but step in the right direction for a QB that looks as lost as Fields generally does. Week 17 vs Atlanta, same as above. 27 minutes ago, sparky151 said: He's yellow on weeks 6, 18, 16, and 11. He was graded as overall green on the latter 2 weeks, btw. He graded orange for weeks 1, 2, and 15. Yellow for Week 6 (completed 6 passes, INT), Week 11 (probably fair), Week 16 (he played bad), and Week 18 (he played bad, but the defense ate him). Fields’ three highest PFF grades came against Denver, Washington, and Altanta, whose defenses ranked 31st, 30th, and 24th in DVOA. Fields had his worst grades vs Cleveland (2nd), TB (14th), Green Bay twice (27th), Minnesota twice (11th), and Detroit (17th). So he only showed up vs bad defenses. Color me uninspired by the PFF grading colors. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nagahide13 Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 (edited) https://www.fantasypros.com/nfl/advanced-stats-qb.php Highest pocket time of any starting QB with relevant snaps. That is certainly not his issue. As for "not having anyone except DJ Moore", that would imply he refuses to even look at receivers because they're bad and he knows ahead of time that they won't be open? Including former 1k yard receiver Darnell Mooney. That's bad football, and it's why I brought up Mahomes. He has less talent catching the ball and still manages to spread the ball out. He is not locked on to a receiver pre-snap. How about Stroud? Middling line and again not a lot of weapons. He doesn't even have a DJ Moore level guy. Stroud elevated everyone around him. Edited February 27 by nagahide13 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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