What do you do if you're the Chicago Bears?

[massraider]

2 hours ago, sparky151 said:

That's part of why Daniels is a better prospect than Williams. The latter was highly touted his whole career. JD turned himself into a star player.

What? It took Daniels two extra years to put a great year together, and that's why he's a better prospect? 

 

[MagicMT]

3 hours ago, sparky151 said:

That's part of why Daniels is a better prospect than Williams. The latter was highly touted his whole career. JD turned himself into a star player. 

Hmmm sorry not sure what is the meaning of that statement it doesn't make any sense. That's not a way to assess if someone is a better prospect than another player. 

3 hours ago, sparky151 said:

He also played well for LSU in 2022 and his LSU career is better than Williams at USC (Daniels didn't lose to Tulane). 

This is a team game. USC didn't have that good of a team and the PAC-12 was really strong this year. 
Because USC (the team) lost to Tulane Jayden Daniels is a better prospect than Williams? 

3 hours ago, sparky151 said:

You seem to forget that Wililams had a former Biletnikoff winner in Jordan Addison catching his passes. 

Yup Williams had Addison in 2022. Nabers is definitely a better prospect than Jordan, and if Brian Thomas Jr was in the draft last year after the season he just had I'm pretty sure he would be drafted ahead of Addison too. So Jayden had a stronger WR corp to help him out, not sure you're making the point you think you're making. 

[Soko]

Williams had help because he had Addison, a player selected in the mid-late first, but Daniels didn’t have even more help, with one receiver being picked (likely) in the top 10, and another picked in the late first/second round?

[Sugashane]

8 hours ago, sparky151 said:

QBs are notoriously hard to predict. I think Williams and Maye are both likelier to bust than Daniels. If you are sure one of the rookie QBs will be a top 10 NFL QB in 2 or 3 years, then sure, pick him. But lots of highly drafted QBs have disappointed. Jake Browning (undrafted free agent) and Brock Purdy (Mr Irrelevant) both had higher passer ratings than the last 5 QBs picked at 1 overall in 2023.

 

Yes, if the Bears didn't have the top pick, they wouldn't be looking to move on from Fields, they'd be looking to get better play from him with the new OC, and giving him some weapons.

I mean you kind of discredit your own guess with that first statement, and never really state why to back up your claim (I do agree though that it is a major crapshoot for the most part). As far as players busting, QBs a few years back had about a 30% chance of busting and about a 40% chance of being a Pro Bowler when drafted in the first over a 10 year breakdown. I'd like to see the breakdown with it being updated. That was years ago.

And Fields IS a highly drafted QB that has disappointed. lol. Both Browning and Purdy have much better QBRs than Fields too. Hell Fields' QBR is lower than Tru's, Mark Brunell's and Brian Griese's right now. His BEST year is below Kaep's/Mariota/Winston/Wentz/Schaub/Tyrod Taylor's career numbers. All of them were in bad spots and had bad seasons at times.

I like Fields and he definitely did get a raw deal (and I can argue in favor of him too), but there is PLENTY of reason for CHI to want to move on. Bears moved on from Tru and traded up to do so, there is literally no objective argument to say that Poles - who didn't even draft Fields himself - wouldn't have reason to move on from Fields if they didn't have the top pick. I think there are 4-5 guys that likely would be sat at 9 to wait for and would be taken to replace Fields, if they didn't want to go for Cousins just to get a finished product for a few years.  

 

 

8 hours ago, sparky151 said:

That's part of why Daniels is a better prospect than Williams. The latter was highly touted his whole career. JD turned himself into a star player. He also played well for LSU in 2022 and his LSU career is better than Williams at USC (Daniels didn't lose to Tulane). You seem to forget that Wililams had a former Biletnikoff winner in Jordan Addison catching his passes.

It's not like Addison > Nabers, Boutte, Thomas AND Taylor. In 2022 USC was putting up 41 to LSU's 34. And in 2023 LSU (#1) scored only 1.5 points per game more than USC (#2) even with significantly more talent around him. Also even with USC losing a Biletnikoff winner in Addison, USC's ppg went UP 0.4ppg in 2023.  So it doesn't sound like Addison was exactly a crutch for the offense there. It is really easy to say that Daniels is more of a product of the system than the true elite prospect.

 

If we are going to compare talent, lets see how many players were drafted in 2022 and 2023 from LSU and USC.

2022 - LSU (10) - USC (3)

2023 - LSU (6) - USC (4)

Do you think 2024 will be any different? Taking out Daniels and Williams, I would bet the next 3 picks between the two would be LSU guys, at least 4 of the next 6. Nabers and Thomas are first round guys, Nabers being a top 5 talent. Then you have Smith and Wingo against the next best USC prospects who would be Bullock or Rice in the 3rd at earliest? Its pretty clear LSU has a much better roster around the QB than USC has.

And as for losing games, do you think Daniels gets his success if he and Williams are swapped? If LSU isn't giving up 22 and 28ppg defensively, they are giving up 29 and 34? I don't.

[lavar703]

On 3/5/2024 at 2:50 PM, sparky151 said:

Well, Fields has gotten better as a passer each season in the league. Just not fast enough to please everyone. 

 

QBs are notoriously hard to predict. I think Williams and Maye are both likelier to bust than Daniels. If you are sure one of the rookie QBs will be a top 10 NFL QB in 2 or 3 years, then sure, pick him. But lots of highly drafted QBs have disappointed. Jake Browning (undrafted free agent) and Brock Purdy (Mr Irrelevant) both had higher passer ratings than the last 5 QBs picked at 1 overall in 2023.

 

Yes, if the Bears didn't have the top pick, they wouldn't be looking to move on from Fields, they'd be looking to get better play from him with the new OC, and giving him some weapons. 

 

That's part of why Daniels is a better prospect than Williams. The latter was highly touted his whole career. JD turned himself into a star player. He also played well for LSU in 2022 and his LSU career is better than Williams at USC (Daniels didn't lose to Tulane). You seem to forget that Wililams had a former Biletnikoff winner in Jordan Addison catching his passes. 

 

 

Jayden Daniels was the second ranked dual threat QB coming out of his high school class and the 57th ranked recruit nationally. The idea he landed at ASU with no fanfare is absurd. I hardly ever watch ASU and I knew who he was. Also, I have no idea how that makes him better and the Jayden Daniels stuff has gotten out of hand. By the time the draft gets here some of ya'll will be calling him the greatest QB prospect ever. 

[Soko]

The worst part is that when Fields plays mediocre again in 2024 for a new team, the excuse will be “new coach, new system, new offense, give him another year and he’ll get even better”.

[Humble_Beast]

If I was Bears 

Draft Caleb Williams, Rome Odunze

Sign an all Pro DL for the defense: Chris Jones or Danielle Hunter- boost to the defense 

trade Justin Fields for a 2nd rounder- draft BPA

team would be set up for a bright future 

[adamq]

If anyone actually wanted Fields that badly, why wouldn't they have already made the trade?

[Duluther]

8 minutes ago, Humble_Beast said:

If I was Bears 

Draft Caleb Williams, Rome Odunze

Sign an all Pro DL for the defense: Chris Jones or Danielle Hunter- boost to the defense 

trade Justin Fields for a 2nd rounder- draft BPA

team would be set up for a bright future 

I'm aware of their cap/pick surplus, but Chicago has used their 2nd for this year on Sweat already. Sweat is already eating up a ton of cap space. Chicago should probably add their secondary pass-rusher through the draft in order to have a balanced cap outlook for their DL/edge group.

I haven't seen them do this in a lot of mocks, but I'd pick Turner/Verse/Latu at 9.

And then because WR is (always) deep in the draft, get whichever remaining WR at 75 best compliments DJ Moore (who is the cap equivalent of Sweat). Maybe Roman Wilson, Ricky Pearsall, or Ja'Lynn Polk... they'd all be good vertical receivers.

[Humble_Beast]

2 minutes ago, Duluther said:

I'm aware of their cap/pick surplus, but Chicago has used their 2nd for this year on Sweat already. Sweat is already eating up a ton of cap space. Chicago should probably add their secondary pass-rusher through the draft in order to have a balanced cap outlook for their DL/edge group.

I haven't seen them do this in a lot of mocks, but I'd pick Turner/Verse/Latu at 9.

And then because WR is (always) deep in the draft, get whichever remaining WR at 75 best compliments DJ Moore (who is the cap equivalent of Sweat). Maybe Roman Wilson, Ricky Pearsall, or Ja'Lynn Polk... they'd all be good vertical receivers.

Edge would be a good pick too. Caleb and two WR1 could do damage in the NFC. Need Caleb to shine

[NYRaider]

1 hour ago, adamq said:

If anyone actually wanted Fields that badly, why wouldn't they have already made the trade?

There isn't a single team in the league that prefers Fields as their guy going into next year. Even the teams that are reportedly interested seem to prefer other guys.

[sparky151]

On 3/5/2024 at 5:14 PM, massraider said:

What? It took Daniels two extra years to put a great year together, and that's why he's a better prospect? 

 

In effect, yes. One of the requirements to play QB in the NFL is mental toughness. Daniels went through some adversity early in his college career, transferred to a more competitive environment, won the starting job at LSU, and has thrived since. Williams was a star recruit who hasn't really faced adversity yet (unless you count crying on the field). As rookies, they'll both go through hard stretches. I'm more confident of Daniels than Williams getting through them smoothly. 

 

On 3/5/2024 at 6:01 PM, MagicMT said:

Hmmm sorry not sure what is the meaning of that statement it doesn't make any sense. That's not a way to assess if someone is a better prospect than another player. 

This is a team game. USC didn't have that good of a team and the PAC-12 was really strong this year. 
Because USC (the team) lost to Tulane Jayden Daniels is a better prospect than Williams? 

Yup Williams had Addison in 2022. Nabers is definitely a better prospect than Jordan, and if Brian Thomas Jr was in the draft last year after the season he just had I'm pretty sure he would be drafted ahead of Addison too. So Jayden had a stronger WR corp to help him out, not sure you're making the point you think you're making. 

USC had no business losing to Tulane in the Cotton Bowl. But Williams couldn't lead his team to play their best. If they had been slapped around by a better team, it would be a different story.

 

On 3/5/2024 at 7:21 PM, Soko said:

Williams had help because he had Addison, a player selected in the mid-late first, but Daniels didn’t have even more help, with one receiver being picked (likely) in the top 10, and another picked in the late first/second round?

No, I'm not disparaging the LSU receivers or other offensive players. But some were arguing that Williams was carrying USC by himself. There are people in this forum who think Williams is a "generational" prospect for whatever reason. I guess their idea of a generation is 4 years. 

On 3/5/2024 at 11:35 PM, Sugashane said:

I mean you kind of discredit your own guess with that first statement, and never really state why to back up your claim (I do agree though that it is a major crapshoot for the most part). As far as players busting, QBs a few years back had about a 30% chance of busting and about a 40% chance of being a Pro Bowler when drafted in the first over a 10 year breakdown. I'd like to see the breakdown with it being updated. That was years ago.

And Fields IS a highly drafted QB that has disappointed. lol. Both Browning and Purdy have much better QBRs than Fields too. Hell Fields' QBR is lower than Tru's, Mark Brunell's and Brian Griese's right now. His BEST year is below Kaep's/Mariota/Winston/Wentz/Schaub/Tyrod Taylor's career numbers. All of them were in bad spots and had bad seasons at times.

I like Fields and he definitely did get a raw deal (and I can argue in favor of him too), but there is PLENTY of reason for CHI to want to move on. Bears moved on from Tru and traded up to do so, there is literally no objective argument to say that Poles - who didn't even draft Fields himself - wouldn't have reason to move on from Fields if they didn't have the top pick. I think there are 4-5 guys that likely would be sat at 9 to wait for and would be taken to replace Fields, if they didn't want to go for Cousins just to get a finished product for a few years.  

 

 

It's not like Addison > Nabers, Boutte, Thomas AND Taylor. In 2022 USC was putting up 41 to LSU's 34. And in 2023 LSU (#1) scored only 1.5 points per game more than USC (#2) even with significantly more talent around him. Also even with USC losing a Biletnikoff winner in Addison, USC's ppg went UP 0.4ppg in 2023.  So it doesn't sound like Addison was exactly a crutch for the offense there. It is really easy to say that Daniels is more of a product of the system than the true elite prospect.

 

If we are going to compare talent, lets see how many players were drafted in 2022 and 2023 from LSU and USC.

2022 - LSU (10) - USC (3)

2023 - LSU (6) - USC (4)

Do you think 2024 will be any different? Taking out Daniels and Williams, I would bet the next 3 picks between the two would be LSU guys, at least 4 of the next 6. Nabers and Thomas are first round guys, Nabers being a top 5 talent. Then you have Smith and Wingo against the next best USC prospects who would be Bullock or Rice in the 3rd at earliest? Its pretty clear LSU has a much better roster around the QB than USC has.

And as for losing games, do you think Daniels gets his success if he and Williams are swapped? If LSU isn't giving up 22 and 28ppg defensively, they are giving up 29 and 34? I don't.

Both USC and LSU had terrible defenses that kept their teams from being more successful. 

Regarding the Bears, it sounds like you are saying that if the Bears didn't have pick 1, they'd be looking to move up from 9 to draft a new QB? I doubt that. Poles has done better by trading down and he can find a new QB in free agency and get a surer thing than a rookie. He could probably get Mayfield for 30ish mil per. 

18 hours ago, lavar703 said:

Jayden Daniels was the second ranked dual threat QB coming out of his high school class and the 57th ranked recruit nationally. The idea he landed at ASU with no fanfare is absurd. I hardly ever watch ASU and I knew who he was. Also, I have no idea how that makes him better and the Jayden Daniels stuff has gotten out of hand. By the time the draft gets here some of ya'll will be calling him the greatest QB prospect ever. 

Daniels final season at ASU he had 10 TDs and 10 picks. His final season at LSU he had 40 TDs and 4 picks. That's a substantial improvement. When Williams arrived at Oklahoma, Rattler was the preseason favorite for the Heisman, probably because he was Lincoln Riley's QB. Williams eventually beat him out, then followed Riley to USC. His passing efficiency numbers are similar across all 3 of his college seasons. IMO he'd be a better prospect if he'd shown some improvement. 

 

18 hours ago, Duluther said:

I'm aware of their cap/pick surplus, but Chicago has used their 2nd for this year on Sweat already. Sweat is already eating up a ton of cap space. Chicago should probably add their secondary pass-rusher through the draft in order to have a balanced cap outlook for their DL/edge group.

I haven't seen them do this in a lot of mocks, but I'd pick Turner/Verse/Latu at 9.

And then because WR is (always) deep in the draft, get whichever remaining WR at 75 best compliments DJ Moore (who is the cap equivalent of Sweat). Maybe Roman Wilson, Ricky Pearsall, or Ja'Lynn Polk... they'd all be good vertical receivers.

Bears need to support whoever their QB is. WR2 is a bigger need than DE2. Maybe they throw money at Gabe Davis or Calvin Ridley but I think they'd be better off taking Odunze at 9 than any of the pass rushers.

 

16 hours ago, NYRaider said:

There isn't a single team in the league that prefers Fields as their guy going into next year. Even the teams that are reportedly interested seem to prefer other guys.

Well, sure right now teams might prefer Cousins or Mayfield. Once they are off the market, someone will decide between Fields, Nix, or paying the price to trade way up. 

[Soko]

4 minutes ago, sparky151 said:

No, I'm not disparaging the LSU receivers or other offensive players. But some were arguing that Williams was carrying USC by himself. There are people in this forum who think Williams is a "generational" prospect for whatever reason. I guess their idea of a generation is 4 years. 

Probably talking about this past year, not 2022.

And being a generational prospect is more of a descriptive label than it is a literal one. It’s something people say to describe how great a blue chip prospect is, not to literally say that we haven’t seen a prospect this good in a decade. Some are calling Bowers generational even though Pitts had the same label. It’s not literal.

 

[NYRaider]

20 minutes ago, sparky151 said:

Well, sure right now teams might prefer Cousins or Mayfield. Once they are off the market, someone will decide between Fields, Nix, or paying the price to trade way up. 

So the Bears should pass on a potentially elite QB to build around a QB that literally no other team in the league prioritizes as a potential starter?

[Sugashane]

7 minutes ago, sparky151 said:

In effect, yes. One of the requirements to play QB in the NFL is mental toughness. Daniels went through some adversity early in his college career, transferred to a more competitive environment, won the starting job at LSU, and has thrived since. Williams was a star recruit who hasn't really faced adversity yet (unless you count crying on the field). As rookies, they'll both go through hard stretches. I'm more confident of Daniels than Williams getting through them smoothly. 

So a guy that has been under constant scrutiny since high school has an easier road than a guy that got to develop and grow with far less pressure, and you think that enhanced that latter's mental toughness? Totally disagree. 

7 minutes ago, sparky151 said:

 

USC had no business losing to Tulane in the Cotton Bowl. But Williams couldn't lead his team to play their best. If they had been slapped around by a better team, it would be a different story.

If you're going to state that then you obviously would say Fields has been an abject failure. He has led his team to a 10-28 record. So you've ruined any argument for being pro Fields if you want to stick with that argument. He put up 45, threw for 462 yards, 5 TDs, and Tulane allowed over 300 yards rushing. Clearly Williams should have done more... 

So how much of a failure is Fields for the defense giving up 27ppg in 2022? Clearly he didn't ins[ire them to play well, so he caused them to have the worst scoring defense in the league, at least by your own logic. 

7 minutes ago, sparky151 said:

Both USC and LSU had terrible defenses that kept their teams from being more successful. 

Why didn't Daniels inspire his defense to play better then? lol 

Also I'd have a hard time saying a defense giving up only 22 ppg would be "terrible" 

7 minutes ago, sparky151 said:

Regarding the Bears, it sounds like you are saying that if the Bears didn't have pick 1, they'd be looking to move up from 9 to draft a new QB? I doubt that. Poles has done better by trading down and he can find a new QB in free agency and get a surer thing than a rookie. He could probably get Mayfield for 30ish mil per. 

I 100% am. Fields has not been able to play consistently, nor has he been able to stay healthy. Call me crazy but I don't believe Poles wants to bank on an injury prone QB who is only incrementally improving year by year that he didn't even draft as his savior. If he only had the pick at 9, the chance of moving up would be 100% on the table, but likely they take who falls to them. 

He also is the head of the team that has spent less than any team in the league over the last 3 years, and you think he is going to run out to go after Mayfield? No way. 

7 minutes ago, sparky151 said:

Daniels final season at ASU he had 10 TDs and 10 picks. His final season at LSU he had 40 TDs and 4 picks. That's a substantial improvement. When Williams arrived at Oklahoma, Rattler was the preseason favorite for the Heisman, probably because he was Lincoln Riley's QB. Williams eventually beat him out, then followed Riley to USC. His passing efficiency numbers are similar across all 3 of his college seasons. IMO he'd be a better prospect if he'd shown some improvement. 

Its cool how you gloss over how he had his first season at 17 TDs and 2 picks, then regressed. Then he had an amazing year. So basically he was mediocre for all but 2 years out of his 5. Are you thinking Fields somehow makes a similar jump? lol 

Exactly, Rattler beat out a Heisman hopeful, then followed a coach he trusted. Daniels ran away from one school because he couldn't perform without an absolutely stacked WR corps. You know who DID perform without an all NCAA offensive cast? Williams.