Hunter2_1 Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 Here’s what you do…light the f league up with that offense. Or at least plan to. I don’t suppose it’s going to be much fun defending against Allen, Moore, Swift and two decent TEs, as well as Caleb if he pans out as expected as for the draft, do they look at Rome/Nabers if still there, or do they address defense? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 3 hours ago, Hunter2_1 said: as for the draft, do they look at Rome/Nabers if still there, or do they address defense? If I’m Chicago, I see if I can trade down into the 20s and recoup a SRP. Grab one of those maulers on OL and grab another WR in the 2nd. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TankWilliams Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 5 hours ago, Hunter2_1 said: Here’s what you do…light the f league up with that offense. Or at least plan to. I don’t suppose it’s going to be much fun defending against Allen, Moore, Swift and two decent TEs, as well as Caleb if he pans out as expected as for the draft, do they look at Rome/Nabers if still there, or do they address defense? From the interviews Poles and Eberflus did yesterday at the owners meeting, it sounded like they have some blue chip players in mind at 9, but they also separately implied (or I could be drawing the wrong conclusions) that they were going to look elsewhere/later for another pass rusher. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler735 Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 There are 4 true "blue chip" caliber players in this draft with Caleb Williams, Marvin Harrison Jr, Brock Bowers, and Joe Alt. The Bears are in a great position to land 2 of those 4 players. At pick #9, if Brock Bowers is on the board, he should be the pick. Cole Kmet is a solid TE, but has nowhere near the ceiling that Bowers does. Looking at Kmet's contract, it doesn't appear that it would cost the Bears all that much in cap space if they were to trade him this year or next year, or just release him next year if for some reason they can't find a trade partner (doubtful they can't find one). Most likely could get a mid round pick for Kmet. Giving Caleb Williams an offense with Keenan Allen, DJ Moore, Brock Bowers, Swift, and Roschon would be an excellent supporting cast for a rookie QB to come into. Caleb Williams to Brock Bowers could easily end up being the next great QB/TE duo for years to come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duluther Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 How often do high-drafted tight ends reach their potential? Becoming a top 5 TE or whatever their potential is? These are all the first round TE's this century. https://thefalconswire.usatoday.com/gallery/nfl-draft-falcons-tight-end-kyle-pitts-hayden-hurst-atlanta/ First, I don't see any of them being worth a #9 pick. Second, there's only a few guys from this list who were worth where they were picked (usually much later in the first). Certainly, a perennial all-pro tight end is an incredibly valuable asset. History shows that scouting tight ends isn't to the efficiency it is for other positions. Most of this decade's all-pro tight ends have been 3rd round picks and later. If I'm the Bears and Bowers and Odunze are both on the board, I'm taking Odunze for many reasons, but one being that WR is so much easier to hit on than a tight end. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler735 Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 (edited) Brock Bowers is the best TE prospect in years if not ever. A combination of excellent athleticism, nuanced route runner, great hands, versatility to line up anywhere including as a threat to run the ball out of the backfield, some of the best production from a TE in years (while playing in the SEC), great blocker, absolute menace with the ball in his hands (new hip drop rule change will only make him more of a nightmare to tackle), great at coming down with contested catches. There are about as few red flags/negatives with Bowers as there can possibly be on a prospect regardless of position. Here's a great thread on just how dominant Brock Bowers has been over the past few years: Regarding recent highly drafted TE's. Kyle Pitts went for over 1,000 yards as a rookie, then had a combo of terrible QB play with Mariota/Ridder and a significant knee injury, which clearly has impacted his ability to produce at a high level. This year will be a much better chance for him to showcase his ability being another year removed from injury and having a decent QB throwing to him. Regardless, Bowers in my opinion is clearly the better football player coming into the NFL. TJ Hockenson took a little while to get going, but was arguably a top 3 TE before getting hurt last season. Bowers is a better prospect than he was as well. Last season the first 2 TE's taken Dalton Kincaid (late first) and Sam Laporta (pick 34) proved to be great investments for their respective teams. Kincaid looks to be a key factor in the Bills offense for years to come, and Laporta is arguably already a top 5 TE going into this season. Both stepped in as rookies and made immediate impacts. Bowers is a better prospect than both of them were coming out. Long story short, I don't think the recent history of taking TE's fairly early in the draft is all that bad. Especially when there's a truly elite TE prospect like Bowers. Edited March 27 by tyler735 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ty21 Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 It was amusing seeing MHJ go to us at 9 in the worst mock I’ve seen all year (Tannenbaum). If anyone actually thinks he goes lower than 4 or 5, they are experiencing prospect fatigue. Same goes for the people now sleeping on Bowers, who adds value as a slot guy too, not just a traditional TE. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duluther Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 1 hour ago, tyler735 said: Snipped As a Vikings fan, I can assure you TJ Hockenson was not and does not project to ever be a top 3 TE. Literally that entire first paragraph, sans the nuance, can be used to fit Kyle Pitts back when he was drafted. I am not discrediting the purported upside and highlights of Bowers; the provided clips are good and all. But it's irresponsible to take such a gamble on a TE in the top ten given the general draft history of the position (which is bad at the top, yes) in the scenarion provided (i.e., Odunze, a tier 1-2 WR prospect, is available). To balance out the pure positives your post has on Bowers specifically, the only specific critique I'll posit of Bowers is web chart: Say what you want about his positives, again I won't argue he's not without them. But I don't think anyone can objectively claim Bowers has as few red flags as a prospect can have while simultaneously having such a limited web chart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler735 Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 (edited) 47 minutes ago, Duluther said: As a Vikings fan, I can assure you TJ Hockenson was not and does not project to ever be a top 3 TE. Who are currently the top 3 TE's. Follow up who are the top 5 TE's? Most will have some combo of Kelce, Andrews, Hockenson, Kittle, and Laporta in those top 5 spots going into this season. Kelce may only play another year or 2. Andrews hasn't really had a "dominant" season since 2021. Kittle is probably a bit better than his stats would indicate just lost in the shuffle at times in San Francisco. Hockenson having the knee injury definitely hurts his stock this season, but prior to the injury he was certainly in the mix for top 3 and at worst top 5. 47 minutes ago, Duluther said: Literally that entire first paragraph, sans the nuance, can be used to fit Kyle Pitts back when he was drafted. It can't. Pitts was not a great blocker, he was not a threat to lineup in the backfield and also be a threat to run the ball. He doesn't have the same violent running style Bowers possesses to consistently break tackles as a YAC specialist. Pitts was a freakish H/W/S prospect that played a lot more of a finesse style game in comparison to Bowers. Pitts was undoubtedly a great TE prospect, just not as good as Bowers as a prospect in my opinion. 47 minutes ago, Duluther said: I am not discrediting the purported upside and highlights of Bowers; the provided clips are good and all. But it's irresponsible to take such a gamble on a TE in the top ten given the general draft history of the position (which is bad at the top, yes) in the scenarion provided (i.e., Odunze, a tier 1-2 WR prospect, is available). Will have to agree to disagree on this point. There are WR prospects that are better than Odunze in both this draft and in several recent previous drafts. I can't say the same about Bowers. An impact TE seems to often coincide with top tier successful teams in the NFL over the past 10-15 years. I'm looking at Brock Bowers the prospect and not passing on him because there has been some mixed results with previous TE prospects. 47 minutes ago, Duluther said: To balance out the pure positives your post has on Bowers specifically, the only specific critique I'll posit of Bowers is web chart: Say what you want about his positives, again I won't argue he's not without them. But I don't think anyone can objectively claim Bowers has as few red flags as a prospect can have while simultaneously having such a limited web chart. If we are digging into a "web chart" to find any real "weaknesses" in Bowers game, then I think we can conclude we are diving pretty deep to find them when so much data is out there regarding how special of an athlete he is, while having elite production, and being a generally well rounded versatile player while playing in the SEC. We're talking about a guy in Bowers that is 6'3' 245lbs. These measurements (Height, Weight, Hand Size, Arm Length) are all very similar to guys like Sam Laporta George Kittle, Dalton Kincaid, and Trey Mcbride. Four TE's that are likely going to be pretty much consensus top 10 TE's and even a couple that will probably be top 5 type guys this season. The TE "web chart" just seems to be a bit of a nothing burger to me. Edited March 27 by tyler735 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malak1 Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 (edited) 3 hours ago, tyler735 said: There are 4 true "blue chip" caliber players in this draft with Caleb Williams, Marvin Harrison Jr, Brock Bowers, and Joe Alt. The Bears are in a great position to land 2 of those 4 players. At pick #9, if Brock Bowers is on the board, he should be the pick. Cole Kmet is a solid TE, but has nowhere near the ceiling that Bowers does. Looking at Kmet's contract, it doesn't appear that it would cost the Bears all that much in cap space if they were to trade him this year or next year, or just release him next year if for some reason they can't find a trade partner (doubtful they can't find one). Most likely could get a mid round pick for Kmet. Giving Caleb Williams an offense with Keenan Allen, DJ Moore, Brock Bowers, Swift, and Roschon would be an excellent supporting cast for a rookie QB to come into. Caleb Williams to Brock Bowers could easily end up being the next great QB/TE duo for years to come. Taking Brock Bowers is very poor value at that slot. Edited March 27 by malak1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler735 Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 4 minutes ago, malak1 said: Taking Brock Bowers is very poor values at that slot. I hope you’re right I want him to slide to pick #14… 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 3 hours ago, Duluther said: How often do high-drafted tight ends reach their potential? Becoming a top 5 TE or whatever their potential is? These are all the first round TE's this century. https://thefalconswire.usatoday.com/gallery/nfl-draft-falcons-tight-end-kyle-pitts-hayden-hurst-atlanta/ First, I don't see any of them being worth a #9 pick. Second, there's only a few guys from this list who were worth where they were picked (usually much later in the first). Certainly, a perennial all-pro tight end is an incredibly valuable asset. History shows that scouting tight ends isn't to the efficiency it is for other positions. Most of this decade's all-pro tight ends have been 3rd round picks and later. If I'm the Bears and Bowers and Odunze are both on the board, I'm taking Odunze for many reasons, but one being that WR is so much easier to hit on than a tight end. Past TEs have no standing on whether Bowers hits or not. Him falling to round two also has no bearing on whether he becomes a great player or a mediocre one. People need to think beyond “TEs don’t usually hit in the first round, so I won’t take one” and instead think why that is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duluther Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 4 minutes ago, Soko said: Past TEs have no standing on whether Bowers hits or not. Him falling to round two also has no bearing on whether he becomes a great player or a mediocre one. People need to think beyond “TEs don’t usually hit in the first round, so I won’t take one” and instead think why that is. It would be irresponsible to not look at cummulative results of past drafts. "Why they think that is", agreed. I don't feel strongly that the NFL has learned how to evaluate and differentiate top tight end prospects - that is why. Until they figure this out, by rule of accumulative results, I'd be weary of drafting a tight end in the top ten, if not the first round altogether. As a poster stated earlier though, the couple of tight ends drafted in the top 40 of last years draft - Kincaid and LaPorta - were hits, so there's a possible precedent for a change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 11 minutes ago, Duluther said: It would be irresponsible to not look at cummulative results of past drafts. "Why they think that is", agreed. I don't feel strongly that the NFL has learned how to evaluate and differentiate top tight end prospects - that is why. Until they figure this out, by rule of accumulative results, I'd be weary of drafting a tight end in the top ten, if not the first round altogether. As a poster stated earlier though, the couple of tight ends drafted in the top 40 of last years draft - Kincaid and LaPorta - were hits, so there's a possible precedent for a change. Look at them, sure. But to take that at face value and let the past results (of other teams, other regimes, other scouts, other prospects, completely separate from you own) dictate your decision - I don’t think is smart. This isn’t like running backs, where we see (at least partially) the factors as to why first round RBs are generally cautionary tales. Like, Ebron, Hurst, Fant, and all the rest of the busts, have no actual bearing on Brock Bowers, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 Bowers is an intriguing player, but I doubt Bears take him at 9. He is also a player you want to use in a variety of ways, not just plug and play into your scheme. A lot OCs just aren't very creative and are incapable of operating outside their box of knowledge. You would want to use Bowers a lot like Patriots used Aaron Hernandez and the way GA used him. Slot, Backfield, TE ... Mooney also didn't seem same guy after his ankle surgery and neither did Bowers when he came back. That is a concern. I wouldn't take him at 9, I would take him lower in first round if he was there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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