AFlaccoSeagulls Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 1 hour ago, sunnygsm said: We don't know celebrities at all, so I don't agree with that comparison. We know Luke and his character. I don't like this argument of "Star Wars/OT never did this so it's fine". Is holding it to higher standards off limits because of it's past? No, we don't, as evidenced by what we just saw in TLJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ty21 Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnygsm Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 1 hour ago, Darth Pees said: No, we don't, as evidenced by what we just saw in TLJ. Nonsense. He's the main protagonist of three entire films. We have plenty to judge from leading up to when he tries to kill Kylo. The changes to his character come after that event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretgod99 Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 5 hours ago, sunnygsm said: Nonsense. He's the main protagonist of three entire films. We have plenty to judge from leading up to when he tries to kill Kylo. The changes to his character come after that event. We knew his character 30 years ago. That gap is significant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnygsm Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 33 minutes ago, fretgod99 said: We knew his character 30 years ago. That gap is significant. There's nothing to suggest that his character changed so drastically in that time. Not before his attempt to kill Kylo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadpulse Posted December 22, 2017 Author Share Posted December 22, 2017 20 minutes ago, sunnygsm said: There's nothing to suggest that his character changed so drastically in that time. Not before his attempt to kill Kylo. Of course not, because we havent seen him in 30 years... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnygsm Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 1 hour ago, Deadpulse said: Of course not, because we havent seen him in 30 years... No kidding. If you want to indicate that he's changed you put a scene in to show it. There's nothing like that, therefore what he did remains stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadpulse Posted December 22, 2017 Author Share Posted December 22, 2017 38 minutes ago, sunnygsm said: No kidding. If you want to indicate that he's changed you put a scene in to show it. There's nothing like that, therefore what he did remains stupid. He didn't show it by being different? Every scene shows it. Not sure where you are going with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnygsm Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 Just now, Deadpulse said: He didn't show it by being different? Every scene shows it. Not sure where you are going with this. You're not reading what I've been writing. Luke becomes a different man after he tried to kill his nephew, that much is obvious. We have no reference to his character, other than the OT, before that event. Him instinctively reacting to kill his nephew is so far out of character that it is not believable based on what they showed. Not just that, it makes no sense as an initial response for anyone. It's a flimsy sequence. I'm ok with what they do to his character after that sequence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadpulse Posted December 22, 2017 Author Share Posted December 22, 2017 4 minutes ago, sunnygsm said: You're not reading what I've been writing. Luke becomes a different man after he tried to kill his nephew, that much is obvious. We have no reference to his character, other than the OT, before that event. Him instinctively reacting to kill his nephew is so far out of character that it is not believable based on what they showed. Not just that, it makes no sense as an initial response for anyone. It's a flimsy sequence. I'm ok with what they do to his character after that sequence. I don't think so. He had a momentary panic reaction that he immediately regretted. All that shows is that he is human and totally in line with his OT persona. He was always quick to react rashly without thinking things through, the difference is he now he does and doesn't follow through with the action. If anything its growth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 9 hours ago, sunnygsm said: Nonsense. He's the main protagonist of three entire films. We have plenty to judge from leading up to when he tries to kill Kylo. The changes to his character come after that event. That's the entire point, we think we know Luke. We've seen him in 3 films go from a teenager to a Jedi Master, so when we see a fatal flaw in him we refuse to accept it - as does Luke! It's the entire reason why he is so broken when Rey finds him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnygsm Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 An adult human reaction is to draw a lightsaber on your sleeping nephew based on a vision? Ok. Plus he already had that growth in ROTJ when he wasn't goaded into striking Vader down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadpulse Posted December 22, 2017 Author Share Posted December 22, 2017 14 minutes ago, sunnygsm said: An adult human reaction is to draw a lightsaber on your sleeping nephew based on a vision? Ok. Plus he already had that growth in ROTJ when he wasn't goaded into striking Vader down. Fair, that growth took place where i thought about doing something awful to a family member but ultimately made the wrong choice. You did just point out the perfect instance that makes that in-line with Luke from the OT where he almost let darkness and fear push him to strike down a family member but didnt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnygsm Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 4 minutes ago, Deadpulse said: Fair, that growth took place where i thought about doing something awful to a family member but ultimately made the wrong choice. You did just point out the perfect instance that makes that in-line with Luke from the OT where he almost let darkness and fear push him to strike down a family member but didnt. But genuine growth would suggest that you learn from your experience. TLJ ignores that and has him repeat a similar, more egregious mistake. It undermines character growth that has been established. There is simply too much that doesn't make sense with this scene for me to accept it as is. The consequences of the scene I can accept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadpulse Posted December 22, 2017 Author Share Posted December 22, 2017 13 minutes ago, sunnygsm said: But genuine growth would suggest that you learn from your experience. TLJ ignores that and has him repeat a similar, more egregious mistake. It undermines character growth that has been established. There is simply too much that doesn't make sense with this scene for me to accept it as is. The consequences of the scene I can accept. We are assuming growth there. There are no indications that this was a character flaw that he expunged, only that it happened and he resitted the initial urge, like he did with Ben. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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