cddolphin Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 22 minutes ago, Deadpulse said: How is TFA irrelevant? The entire throughline of the plot is "We need to find Luke Skywalker" which lead directly into one of the biggest parts of TLJ It's of course not irrelevant as a whole but there were plenty of main plot points in that film that TLJ just sort of swept away. The most egregious of which is the almost startling tone (I feel like that's not the right word but whatever) shift from the end of TFA to the start of TLJ. We leave our heroes after having managed a great victory against the First Order, destroying their death star and getting a big win for the rebels (or whatever they're called now..). Opening scene in TLJ is... the First Order arriving to wipe out what's left of the rebels. Huh?? Why even bother with the death star if it being destroyed is so.. irrelevant? Wait, I know the answer: nostalgia and a familiar parallel with A New Hope. I also take big issue with Snoke being propped up to be this incredibly powerful guy, all for him to be killed off before being given any background, context, or glimpse as to why he's so powerful (force lightning and telekinesis, yawn). Although I'm not convinced he's actually dead. I think they place too much visual emphasis on that jedi emblem, the fault line down the middle of it (similar to Snoke's head). If Snoke 'disembodied' himself for some nefarious reason (to see the paths of Rey & Ren? Waiting for a moment to turn Rey, since it's been hinted that she has an affinity to the dark side?) then this particular complaint goes away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretgod99 Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 The Last Jedi makes The Force Awakens even better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvert28 Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 8 hours ago, Deadpulse said: How is TFA irrelevant? The entire throughline of the plot is "We need to find Luke Skywalker" which lead directly into one of the biggest parts of TLJ And it turns out Skywalker was useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvert28 Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 1 hour ago, fretgod99 said: The Last Jedi makes The Force Awakens even better. Wow another Disney paid article to defend its crappy production. Considering Ren was willing to lie to Hux about Snoke's death. People don't think it's plausible he just lied to Rey to leave her feeling alone and desperate for someone to cling too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadpulse Posted January 4, 2018 Author Share Posted January 4, 2018 6 minutes ago, Calvert28 said: Wow another Disney paid article to defend its crappy production. This is a logical fallacy. You shouldnt use those, even if you are right (which I dont think you are). 18 minutes ago, Calvert28 said: 8 hours ago, Deadpulse said: How is TFA irrelevant? The entire throughline of the plot is "We need to find Luke Skywalker" which lead directly into one of the biggest parts of TLJ And it turns out Skywalker was useless. Except the resistance wouldn't exist without his help, but sure, useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretgod99 Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 9 hours ago, Calvert28 said: Wow another Disney paid article to defend its crappy production. Considering Ren was willing to lie to Hux about Snoke's death. People don't think it's plausible he just lied to Rey to leave her feeling alone and desperate for someone to cling too? Man, you just can’t stand that people enjoyed this movie can you? Show me on this dollie where Star Wars touched you. It’s not that people don’t think it’s possible he lied, it’s that another story about yet another Skywalker (or other lineage member) saving the galaxy from a Skywalker would be boring af. We’ve seen that. And it honestly would make far less sense, based off of what was set up in both movies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvert28 Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 13 hours ago, Deadpulse said: This is a logical fallacy. You shouldnt use those, even if you are right (which I dont think you are). Except the resistance wouldn't exist without his help, but sure, useless. And what believe journalism is unbiased and always writes the truth? I don't mind exposing the flaws and hypocrisy of our society! Disneys colors have been exposed. And big media companies always pay for good advertisement. It's a fact. Yes it could. Skywalker did nothing that couldn't have been changed with some simple writing in the script. They could have just as easily wrote it to wear they fooled the FO and Benicio never betrayed the Resistance guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretgod99 Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 2 hours ago, Calvert28 said: Yes it could. Skywalker did nothing that couldn't have been changed with some simple writing in the script. They could have just as easily wrote it to wear they fooled the FO and Benicio never betrayed the Resistance guys. They could easily have written any number of things. How is that a counterargument? They could have written it where Snoke was really Windu and Hux was a secret undercover Jedi and Rey was Obiwan’s second cousin’s babysitter reincarnated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadpulse Posted January 5, 2018 Author Share Posted January 5, 2018 4 hours ago, fretgod99 said: 7 hours ago, Calvert28 said: Yes it could. Skywalker did nothing that couldn't have been changed with some simple writing in the script. They could have just as easily wrote it to wear they fooled the FO and Benicio never betrayed the Resistance guys. They could easily have written any number of things. How is that a counterargument? They could have written it where Snoke was really Windu and Hux was a secret undercover Jedi and Rey was Obiwan’s second cousin’s babysitter reincarnated. Exactly as @fretgod99 says, this is not a valid counterargument. Could they have written it so Luke was useless? Yes. However, they wrote the script in a way in which he wasnt useless. Using the argument you are (which is another logical fallacy ), you are proving my point that he currently IS written as useFUL by saying it couldve been written the opposite way. 7 hours ago, Calvert28 said: And what believe journalism is unbiased and always writes the truth? I don't mind exposing the flaws and hypocrisy of our society! Disneys colors have been exposed. And big media companies always pay for good advertisement. It's a fact. Ad populum: This is an emotional appeal that speaks to positive (such as patriotism, religion, democracy) or negative (such as terrorism or fascism) concepts rather than the real issue at hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Hope- Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 7 hours ago, Calvert28 said: And what believe journalism is unbiased and always writes the truth? I don't mind exposing the flaws and hypocrisy of our society! Disneys colors have been exposed. And big media companies always pay for good advertisement. It's a fact. lmao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeaReylo Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 On 1/3/2018 at 11:28 PM, Calvert28 said: Wow another Disney paid article to defend its crappy production. Considering Ren was willing to lie to Hux about Snoke's death. People don't think it's plausible he just lied to Rey to leave her feeling alone and desperate for someone to cling too? Kylo wasn't lying to Rey. She can read his mind and vice versa. If he was lying to her she would have known it. And Rey confirmed it herself when she admitted she knew it all along. For that matter Rian Johnson said Kylo was telling the truth. https://www.bustle.com/p/did-kylo-ren-tell-the-truth-about-reys-parents-the-last-jedi-question-more-answered-by-director-rian-johnson-7616482 Whether you like it or not these are canon facts, out and out said in the movie and reiterated by the director himself. And the fact Rey and Ben are romantically connected, which started in The Force Awakens, in and off itself means she was never intended to be a Skywalker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvert28 Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 On 1/4/2018 at 6:16 AM, fretgod99 said: Man, you just can’t stand that people enjoyed this movie can you? Show me on this dollie where Star Wars touched you. It’s not that people don’t think it’s possible he lied, it’s that another story about yet another Skywalker (or other lineage member) saving the galaxy from a Skywalker would be boring af. We’ve seen that. And it honestly would make far less sense, based off of what was set up in both movies. stockholm syndrome in full effect I guess. Only way to cope with crappy productions is just to accept the fate and play along with them being good cause they have no other choice. What was set up in both movies? Abrams set it up far more for Rey's parents to be special and relevant people. To have them as nobodies. They could have explained that in movie one. And no it would not have been boring, where do you even get that idea? You've seen that? We've seen most of the crap they've already shown us in the OT. The apprentice unexpectedly betraying the master. Gee where have I seen that before? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvert28 Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 On 1/4/2018 at 12:49 PM, fretgod99 said: They could easily have written any number of things. How is that a counterargument? They could have written it where Snoke was really Windu and Hux was a secret undercover Jedi and Rey was Obiwan’s second cousin’s babysitter reincarnated. Kudos to you fret. Even in all that sarcasm you still wrote a better plot then what we were given in this movie. You should go to Hollywood. Fix some of these crappy stories they are putting out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvert28 Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 On 1/4/2018 at 5:30 PM, Deadpulse said: Exactly as @fretgod99 says, this is not a valid counterargument. Could they have written it so Luke was useless? Yes. However, they wrote the script in a way in which he wasnt useless. Using the argument you are (which is another logical fallacy ), you are proving my point that he currently IS written as useFUL by saying it couldve been written the opposite way. Ad populum: This is an emotional appeal that speaks to positive (such as patriotism, religion, democracy) or negative (such as terrorism or fascism) concepts rather than the real issue at hand. Show me the point of Luke Skywalker outside of one scene of that entire movie. And he was a freaking projection of himself, nothing he did mattered in that movie. There was no point to finding the great Luke Skywalker who was scripted as a passover. Go ahead and find me the scenes. Any of you that showed he had some major part in this trilogy. I kinda already pointed out their pandering in the movie. I was talking about their advertising of this movie. And the type of shady tactics they have already been exposed doing when people dont write good things about their movies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvert28 Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 49 minutes ago, FosterTheSkins said: Kylo wasn't lying to Rey. She can read his mind and vice versa. If he was lying to her she would have known it. And Rey confirmed it herself when she admitted she knew it all along. For that matter Rian Johnson said Kylo was telling the truth. https://www.bustle.com/p/did-kylo-ren-tell-the-truth-about-reys-parents-the-last-jedi-question-more-answered-by-director-rian-johnson-7616482 Whether you like it or not these are canon facts, out and out said in the movie and reiterated by the director himself. And the fact Rey and Ben are romantically connected, which started in The Force Awakens, in and off itself means she was never intended to be a Skywalker. Known what? What Snoke knew? Cause that didn't work out too well for him. And if that was true, then she would have known it all along that she couldn't turn Ren. Hence the disappointment after they got through dealing the bodyguards. I'll give you that he may have not been lying to her but..... "I don’t think he’s lying in that moment — I think he is like telling what he saw and I think that Rey seems like she believes it in that moment. So for me, I wrote it as an honest revelation and as an honest kind of reaction to it, as opposed to a move in a game of chess," And this is where I dont totally buy that. That part in bold, there is nothing definitive about that answer he just gave. He saw a vision and told Rey what he interpreted. Which is why I wonder. He saw people selling Rey off for drinking money. He assumed they were her parents. That is a vision that could have been misinterpreted. Read the interview closer. He is once again leaving it open much like Abrams did for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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