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***SPOILERS*** Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi SPOILER Thread

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On 1/11/2018 at 7:09 PM, MKnight82 said:

Its pretty much the equivalent.  Luke did nothing until most of them were dead.  

What was Luke supposed to do before that? Show up in a waterlogged, broken down X-Wing, part of whose wing panel was being used as a door, and take down an entire fleet?

The only time he would have been relevant was Crait, and he was there for that. So I’m not sure I get this complaint.

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3 hours ago, fretgod99 said:

waterlogged, broken down X-Wing, part of whose wing panel was being used as a door

His Xwing was only in that state because Rian Johnson wrote it that way.  

3 hours ago, fretgod99 said:

The only time he would have been relevant was Crait

You really think Luke Skywalker showing up wouldn't have diverted Snoke and Kylo Rens attention?

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29 minutes ago, MKnight82 said:
3 hours ago, fretgod99 said:

waterlogged, broken down X-Wing, part of whose wing panel was being used as a door

His Xwing was only in that state because Rian Johnson wrote it that way.  

A lot of logical fallacies being used in this thread

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2 hours ago, MKnight82 said:

His Xwing was only in that state because Rian Johnson wrote it that way. 

I’m honestly at a loss as to how I’m supposed to respond to this. Yes. His X-Wing was in that state because of how the story was written. That’s also the same reason Luke Skywalker was on Ahch-To, because it was written that way. It’s also why the Emperor got killed by Vader and not Luke. It’s also why Luke is even a character.

How is that something I’m supposed to respond to? Your point seems to be “Well, if they would have written it completely differently, then entirely different things would have happened.” Yeah, that’s kind of how that works.

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2 hours ago, MKnight82 said:

You really think Luke Skywalker showing up wouldn't have diverted Snoke and Kylo Rens attention?

So you wanted Luke to immediately jump onboard with everything as soon as Rey showed up. Because at any point after, not much changes. And frankly, even before that, not much changes. Luke shows up and what? He stays in the X-Wing and saves the day not by fighting the entire FO with a laser sword, but an X-Wing? Or, did you want him to go to face down Snoke on Snoke’s ship? So, exactly like RotJ then? Isn’t the biggest complaint about VII is that it was too much like IV?

I honestly don’t know what you want Luke to do to save everybody in a movie that is not now nor was it ever supposed to be a movie about him. What do you think he could have done that would have made things play out drastically differently for the Resistance?

It certainly sounds like you have the Luke the Legend ideal stuck in your head, which is exactly the thing Luke explicitly warned Rey not to do in the movie.

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1 hour ago, fretgod99 said:

I’m honestly at a loss as to how I’m supposed to respond to this. Yes. His X-Wing was in that state because of how the story was written. That’s also the same reason Luke Skywalker was on Ahch-To, because it was written that way. It’s also why the Emperor got killed by Vader and not Luke. It’s also why Luke is even a character.

How is that something I’m supposed to respond to? Your point seems to be “Well, if they would have written it completely differently, then entirely different things would have happened.” Yeah, that’s kind of how that works.

My opinion is that it was a poorly written sequel to the Force Awakens.  How is that an invalid opinion?  You liked the movie, I didn't particularly care for it. 

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1 hour ago, MKnight82 said:

My opinion is that it was a poorly written sequel to the Force Awakens.  How is that an invalid opinion?  You liked the movie, I didn't particularly care for it. 

The discussion we were most immediately having was how Luke impacted this movie. So “I want an entirely different movie” isn’t really relevant when the discussion is about what Luke’s role was in this movie.

Plus, I disagree that this is a poorly written sequel, as do a number of others, and we’re discussing that within the framework of this movie. Because this is the sequel we have. So you make a claim as to why it you don’t like it, somebody argues against it, and your response is “only because it was written that way”.

So again, Rian Johnson writes it differently, where Luke’s X-Wing isn’t unavailable. What would you want him to do? Take down the entire fleet with his X-Wing, instead of a laser sword? Rehash RotJ? What’s your preference for how this plays out?

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Wait a second... Calvert, one of the TLJ haters, is literally the only person who loved The Mummy (2017). 

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23 hours ago, MKnight82 said:

My opinion is that it was a poorly written sequel to the Force Awakens.  How is that an invalid opinion?  You liked the movie, I didn't particularly care for it. 

Exactly.  Johnson had so many things set up for him from Abrams sequel, and he failed to appropriately address them.  Rey's parents?  Either addressed or yet to come depending on what you believe?  Who is Snoke?  Who cares, we treated him as a joke when we showed him dead with his tongue out.  Those were the two biggest talking points that fans of the FRANCHISE were talking about the past two years, and we can't even appropriately address them.  Let's also not forget the Knights of Ren reference from 7, and that wasn't addressed either.......unless you are one who believes that they were Snoke's guard.  It's no wonder they want Abrams to come back and direct the Episode 9.   

I can name only three things I liked about this movie.  The first, I really liked that they did the ramming of Snoke's flagship through hyperspace.  Second, I really liked that one of Snoke's guards had the light whip, another EU weapon that was added back.  Third, and this is really minor.......the companion guide, which is canon like the movie, states that Luke has a Jedi Crusader pendant in his hut.  If true, then Revan is now a canon character, no longer just legends.  

I love Star Wars.  I've played all of the video games over the years, starting with Dark Forces and the X-Wing/TIE Fighter franchise, all the way to SWTOR, where I've completed all 8 class stories and been a subscriber since launch.  I have all of the EU novels, and now all of the new novels.  After fully detoxing from The Last Jedi, I have to say it felt like it was "DLC" for The Force Awakens rather than it's own standalone movie in a trilogy, not to mention completely ignoring the plot points that they knew the fans were talking about.  If they are talking about putting an entire new trilogy into Johnson's hands, they better do a hard reset on that. 

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22 hours ago, fretgod99 said:

The discussion we were most immediately having was how Luke impacted this movie. So “I want an entirely different movie” isn’t really relevant when the discussion is about what Luke’s role was in this movie.

Plus, I disagree that this is a poorly written sequel, as do a number of others, and we’re discussing that within the framework of this movie. Because this is the sequel we have. So you make a claim as to why it you don’t like it, somebody argues against it, and your response is “only because it was written that way”.

So again, Rian Johnson writes it differently, where Luke’s X-Wing isn’t unavailable. What would you want him to do? Take down the entire fleet with his X-Wing, instead of a laser sword? Rehash RotJ? What’s your preference for how this plays out?

Luke's XWing is just a random detail that doesn't matter, the heart of the disagreement here is that I don't like the way Luke's story was written at all.  The only reason I said anything about the XWing is because you said Luke couldn't have shown up because his ship was underwater, but that's an argument after the fact when my gripe is about the guy who put the pen to paper on this movie.  

This movie is the equivalent of a long tenured band releasing a new album that sounds nothing like its previous work, and some fans love it while others don't.  I'm in the category that wasn't a fan of the new direction.  

As far as your question, my preference for the movie's direction would have been a completely different conception of the entire movie.  I think its pretty lame to leave two of your main characters (Leia and Poe) sitting on a starship doing nothing for the majority of the movie.  I thought the casino detour was lame.  I thought splitting up Poe and Finn was lame, I would have appreciated if they shared a lot more screen time together.  I understand the difficulty of having Rey share more screen time with the others, she was on a whole other planet at the end of FA and she needs to go her own path from the others since she's force sensitive.  But if you're going to have Rey there with Luke Skywalker, have Luke freaking Skywalker train her at least.  If you don't want to do a rehash of Empire (makes sense) then do a time jump and just say that Luke has been training Rey for several months.  At least then it would make sense that Rey can do the things she can. 

I thought killing Admiral Ackbar offscreen sucked.  I thought making Snoke a pretty pointless character was lame.  I thought Luke Skywalker not going with Rey to help after finding out Han had been murdered was terrible.    

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I thought Luke’s arc was great. I loved it from the moment he tossed the lightsaber. I honestly don’t know how you have him running off to an isolated planet, without leaving a way to contact him or find him, and without leaving a clue as to why he was leaving, and have it play out as anything but he doesn’t want to be found.

Luke trains Rey. But timing is an issue. You can’t do a time wipe. At the end of TFA, the FO knows exactly where the Resistance is based. It’s not like this much better funded, equipped, and populated military force is going to sit back and wait. What is the Resistance doing to fend off the FO during that whole time wipe?

I also don’t know why Poe and Finn need to share more screentime in this movie. We already know they are friends and have a bond. They’re allowed to do things that don’t involve the other. It makes both characters more interesting. Both characters needed to grow and they both did in this movie in ways that having the other around for wouldn’t have been beneficial.

Re: Leia, I think it’s a bit unfair. I believe the original intent was to have her much more involved in IX. Fisher dying obviously impacts that in hindsight.

And I’ve said a number of times, Snoke in this trilogy is exactly who the Emperor was in the OT. But I don’t hear and have never heard anybody complain about how the Emperor was used in the OT.

Also, Ackbar didn’t die off screen. He was on the bridge with Leia. He’s in the background. But why he would need to be front and center is odd. He was always a background character. He wasn’t central to anything in VI.

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17 hours ago, MKnight82 said:

  But if you're going to have Rey there with Luke Skywalker, have Luke freaking Skywalker train her at least.  If you don't want to do a rehash of Empire (makes sense) then do a time jump and just say that Luke has been training Rey for several months.  At least then it would make sense that Rey can do the things she can. 

I always assumed that he did train her off screen.  Remember all the backlash from Ep 7 being too much like Ep 4, and how most fans didn't want TLJ to feel too much like TESB.  Just an easy way to keep the two from being too similar.  Plus, there's the whole deleted scenes part.

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For all those who think Luke did nothing:

Context -- Talking about the final scene of the movie

Quote

That was something I really stuck to, and believe me, we went back and forth in the editing room. In the script, when I wrote that scene in the Falcon, I wrote the words, 'this seems like the perfect image to end on.' To me, it was really important to have that final scene, because it turns what Luke did from an act that saves 20 people into an act that inspires the galaxy. The notion that what we're setting up here is something big in the next chapter. And when Leia says, 'we have everything we need,' she's talking about everyone on the Falcon, but also about what we see next, which is we now have a galaxy that has seen this beacon of hope and is getting inspired to fight the good fight.

 

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^^^ I wish I could triple like that and share it with everyone who is critical of this movie.  I just can't help but be reminded of that one person who hated Empire Strikes Back when it first came out and kept trying to suggest that Vader was just lying about being Luke's dad. 

Next movie is gonna make a lotta the complaints look a lotta stupid. 

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