sunnygsm Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 It's a Mary Sue, not Maggie. For those that were looking it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvert28 Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 1 hour ago, Deadpulse said: I dont agree with this, like, at all. In FA, Rey had a single minded focus of returning to Jahku of all places because she has this crippling need to be reunited with parents who abandoned her. She constantly looks to the past because she is afraid of herself and needs validation that she will be ok from her parents. Its one of the reasons why she pivots to Luke so hard, she needs someone to prop her up because she has crazy insecurities. In TLJ she calls Luke the resistance's only hope and when she finally gives up on him, she goes immediately to the horrible idea that Kylo Ren is the resistance's only hope. She has zero faith in herself, her abilities, or her impact on the wider conflict. Her entire mission in TLJ is to find a force user to turn the tide, it never even occurs to her that she should try. This is reinforced when Kylo picks at her insecurities in the throne room after the fight, going in on her parents. He knows this is her weakness and he uses it to try to pull her to his side. The biggest proof of her crippling insecurities and lack of self worth comes from, without hesitation, she goes to the "dark place" on the island because it called to her promising answers about her parents. She is so desperate for validation she risk her life and sanity time and again to get it from someone, anyone. Well theres another contradiction of the series. In ESB Luke had such a trouble learning the force and using it with Yoda and all because of the same issues as the ones in bold. Yet Rey does it like someone hacked her character with a Game Genie. Gee I wonder why that is, must be all the great writing we keep hearing about and no issues with the story, characters or plots. Must also be why the movies are doing so well. Everything you said is true. And would be so much better if she actually had to struggle through it all besides the ignorant self doubt which is really her only real obstacle in the series thus far. Trying to break out to bring that empowerment role. Everything else she can match blow for blow. Her character reminds me alot of that Korra girl from the second Avatar show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadpulse Posted July 8, 2018 Author Share Posted July 8, 2018 32 minutes ago, Calvert28 said: Why did they feel the need to create an entirely new freaking character to do something that could have just been filled by one of the remaining characters at the beginning of the story. LIKE ACKBAR! THAT'S WHAT YOU DON'T GET. Ive already explained this, but as usual you ignore it. You should try having actual discussions rather than just posting the same post over and over again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvert28 Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 Just now, Deadpulse said: Ive already explained this, but as usual you ignore it. You should try having actual discussions rather than just posting the same post over and over again. You explained it poorly and I retorted which you had nothing to come back with. Poe disobeyed Leia. There is no reason to think he would not have disobeyed Ackbar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretgod99 Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 3 hours ago, Calvert28 said: You mean against terrible female leads? I go against all poorly written characters in general. I can go back and discuss Kylo and Rey and discuss their wasted potential thus far again. But getting back to that, and what Heinz said. This isn't Lucas's driven story, Disney made that clear. They are not sticking to his original ideas on how the story is supposed to be. With the original trilogy Sure there was white washing. There was in all movies that happened literally 40 years ago which is why it makes no sense to compare politics of the different eras of how the movies were handled. At least there was consistency among their chosen there was good guys, and bad guys, all of whom were the same color. H/e flash forward, theres not diversity amongst good and evil alignments. There is just one alignment with all the bad guys on it of a specific stereotype. And then the good guys are everyone else fighting against this tyranny that just happens to go with todays political matters. Something that is discussed regularly. So the First Order is just the latest iteration of the Empire with the same goals, but you think they’ll have an entirely different makeup? With as much as people piss and moan about continuity now, I’m betting that would go over swell. I mean, it’s not like people raged at the audacity of a black stormtrooper when the first trailer with Finn came out or anything. So keep it the same and you clearly have a political agenda to push against the real victims in society. Or change it and you clearly don’t understand the originals at all. Sounds fair. As for the other bit, I’m just noticing a trend across a number of threads, that’s all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvert28 Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 Just now, fretgod99 said: So the First Order is just the latest iteration of the Empire with the same goals, but you think they’ll have an entirely different makeup? With as much as people piss and moan about continuity now, I’m that would go over swell. I mean, it’s not like people raged at the audacity of a black stormtrooper when the first trailer with Finn came out or anything. I'm not one of those people. I don't think the guy who plays Finn is a great actor. But I never had a problem with him when I first heard about the character. The Extended Universe had female leads that were of the Empire, even Lucas himself touched on this. The Empire had diversity, alot of it with humans. Just not so much of the alien kind at the top ranks. Which Lucas attributed too in his own words as being Nazi Germany. But cmon you don't think it's a coincidence that it was set up like this by Kennedy? Just now, fretgod99 said: So keep itthe same and you clearly have a political agenda to push against the rewl victims in society. Or change it and you clearly don’t understand the originals at all. Sounds fair. As for the other bit, I’m just noticing a trend across a number of threads, that’s all. Like uhhhhh Solo you mean? That kind of original which predates the OT in story where all the Storm Troopers were a specific type? So with the FO which is the same as the Empire as you say. Disney is going to change everything else in the Star Wars universe. But leave a specific stereotype as the same mold for the bad guys. Yea you're real fair with how your looking at this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretgod99 Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 Haven’t seen Solo. *shrug* Price of having a newborn. Let’s assume for the sake of argument that all these characters really are terribly written. Here’s the difference, Snoke and Ren are described as being wasted potential. They could have done so much more with them. Holdo and Rose are described as clear evidence of shoehorning in a bunch of SJW political agenda. They don’t even get to be just poorly written; it has to be something else. That’s why it’s a little difficult to take some of this criticism at face value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinz D. Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 On 7/7/2018 at 10:50 AM, HorizontoZenith said: Lol. I see your horrible attempt at injecting social justice warrioring into Star Wars and trying to make it look like Star Wars has always been about social justice issues and I raise you... Darth Vader is black and the villain up until he returns to being white, at which point he is good again. Your attempt at making it seem like Star Wars has always been some anti-white SJW trilogy is the lamest of the lamest of the lamest arguments and it makes me glad this sort of thing can't be discussed here. Uhhh...not really. I was responding to another poster who was using the ethnic makeup of the First Order as a new development, and a clear, key issue to slam the current trilogy for. You may want to, you know, actually take the time to read these various comments and back-and-forths before commenting on them. Just a thought. Star Wars has always been about a struggle against totalitarianism and fascism, and was, indeed, inspired by the cultural upheaval of the 1960s. You can pretend otherwise, or somehow equate being against fascism as a social justice issue, but in either case, you'd be wrong. And the Darth Vader color thing is just...ridiculous. Do you believe it was Disney's plan to spread tension and hate? That seemed to me to be the centerpiece of my post that quoted, and responded to. 21 hours ago, HorizontoZenith said: The point is that the original Star Wars trilogy was not preaching SJW talking points while the new one is. Nobody cares about well-written female leads. I guess a tiny sect of blatantly sexist people do, but 99% of the population doesn't care about well-written female leads or well-written female characters. There's a well-established history of beloved science fiction, action, horror, drama, comedy, fantasy and every other genre of filmmaking that proves this with a brilliant history of film that celebrates these well-written characters. The complaint, which is legitimate, is with these poorly written characters made simply to cater to the whole thing. Laura Dern's character was a crap character. Rose was a crap character. A very strong argument could be made that Rey is a poorly written character. Name one fault with Rey. Rey is a Maggie Sue character. That's a fact. Leia was not. The complaints are legitimate. You can't really turn a conversation on its side, and then immediately declare that the "point" is whatever you want it to be. That's silly. But anyway, I'll play--how do poorly written characters equal all the "SJW" stuff you seem to see going on? 9 hours ago, HorizontoZenith said: I was questioned about what made Leia a great character. Please. When was that? I missed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretgod99 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 10 hours ago, HorizontoZenith said: I was questioned about what makes Leia a great character. No you weren’t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skywindO2 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 I saw the movie twice and theaters and liked it both times. I haven't watched again yet but might soon. I've hardly bothered to read any of the complaints and don't really want to waste my time doing so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DUKE Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 I hope Keri Russell is cast as one of the bad guys. She shines in those type of roles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBURGE Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 I kinda like TLJ as a stand-alone film, but I think the new trilogy has been disappointing as a whole. Just don't love the story arc, how little it seems they've accomplished in 2 movies. idk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DUKE Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 1 hour ago, JBURGE25 said: I kinda like TLJ as a stand-alone film, but I think the new trilogy has been disappointing as a whole. Just don't love the story arc, how little it seems they've accomplished in 2 movies. idk. I'm willing to hold any judgment until I see how Ep 9 finishes the story. I've enjoyed both movies so far. TFA moreso, probably because I'm a sucker for nostalgia. I think Rey's story arc was significantly better in 7 than 8, and I think Ren's story arc was significantly better in 8 than 7. I think they are wasting the potential Oscar Isaac could be bringing to his role with poor writing. Finn's story took a nose dive in 8, but I really enjoyed what they did with Luke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadpulse Posted July 9, 2018 Author Share Posted July 9, 2018 1 hour ago, THE DUKE said: I hope Keri Russell is cast as one of the bad guys. She shines in those type of roles. Same, maybe a competent general of the new order to juxtapose with Hux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBURGE Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 47 minutes ago, THE DUKE said: 1 hour ago, JBURGE25 said: I kinda like TLJ as a stand-alone film, but I think the new trilogy has been disappointing as a whole. Just don't love the story arc, how little it seems they've accomplished in 2 movies. idk. I'm willing to hold any judgment until I see how Ep 9 finishes the story. I've enjoyed both movies so far. TFA moreso, probably because I'm a sucker for nostalgia. I think Rey's story arc was significantly better in 7 than 8, and I think Ren's story arc was significantly better in 8 than 7. I think they are wasting the potential Oscar Isaac could be bringing to his role with poor writing. Finn's story took a nose dive in 8, but I really enjoyed what they did with Luke I agree with you on Rey and Kylo's story arcs. Finn was a mess in 8, I don't know why they didn't keep rolling with Finn and Poe as the duo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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