Ghostnote Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 15 minutes ago, turtle28 said: If they weren’t Good football players Gibbs would have cut them but hey, maybe you know more about football than a Hall of Fame head coach? Betts wasn’t injured that often and Cartwright was a good #3 back and they were both a core special teams players as a cover guys and a guys who never fumbled kick offs. I’m pessimistic about somethings, I’m just more optimistic than pessimistic and I have no problem pointing out when players screw up. Anyone would kill now for Betts over Kelley and Prine and if you wouldn’t be, you need to get your head checked! I actually would not. I would kill for Alfred Morris. Betts. Nah. And to say that Joe Gibbs had any clue about the game during that time would really be an overstatement. Vinny Cerrato was making the draft picks at that time. And he had no clue. Sometimes when I think about those times, its painful. There was no model for the team. There was no real leadership. And without McCloughan, there is no real leadership in Ashburn. Joe Gibbs 2.0 was a PR move to get people interested in the team again. Anything more than that is giving the move too much credit. And, Joe Gibbs never believed in the draft. He liked proven talent. So in terms of talking talent evaluation, yes, I would like to think I know more about it than he would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ripsean21 Posted December 20, 2017 Author Share Posted December 20, 2017 2 minutes ago, mike23md said: I actually would not. I would kill for Alfred Morris. Betts. Nah. And to say that Joe Gibbs had any clue about the game during that time would really be an overstatement. Vinny Cerrato was making the draft picks at that time. And he had no clue. Sometimes when I think about those times, its painful. There was no model for the team. There was no real leadership. And without McCloughan, there is no real leadership in Ashburn. Joe Gibbs 2.0 was a PR move to get people interested in the team again. Anything more than that is giving the move too much credit. And, Joe Gibbs never believed in the draft. He liked proven talent. So in terms of talking talent evaluation, yes, I would like to think I know more about it than he would. Which leads me to my next point friends!!!!! What do you guys think would have came if we let Greg Willaims take the job over after Gibbs? Yes we would have still had cerrato, but Williams was who I think most believed the guy who deserved the job! But this defense hasn’t been anything close to that since him once his guys started to cycle off the roster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostnote Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 1 minute ago, ripsean21 said: Which leads me to my next point friends!!!!! What do you guys think would have came if we let Greg Willaims take the job over after Gibbs? Yes we would have still had cerrato, but Williams was who I think most believed the guy who deserved the job! But this defense hasn’t been anything close to that since him once his guys started to cycle off the roster The world may never know. What I would like to think is that this team would have seen a lot more discipline. Williams was hard nosed and didnt take crap. Which is what I believe didnt get him the job. He was not going to be a puppet boy for Danny. He is a hell of a defensive mind. And we would have stayed in the 4-3. Cerrato ended up leaving. So we most likely would not have had Cerrato for too long. But remember, Williams was the guy that pounded the table for Taylor. Gibbs wanted to go in a different direction, but Williams made that pick happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ripsean21 Posted December 20, 2017 Author Share Posted December 20, 2017 11 minutes ago, mike23md said: The world may never know. What I would like to think is that this team would have seen a lot more discipline. Williams was hard nosed and didnt take crap. Which is what I believe didnt get him the job. He was not going to be a puppet boy for Danny. He is a hell of a defensive mind. And we would have stayed in the 4-3. Cerrato ended up leaving. So we most likely would not have had Cerrato for too long. But remember, Williams was the guy that pounded the table for Taylor. Gibbs wanted to go in a different direction, but Williams made that pick happen. Oh I know and I believe this team to this day would have had a real hard nosed identity. Where trying to build a name for what this team should be and I believe we want to be a physical team. We have had bad luck with injuries. We need to make a pick like Taylor for this team. We need to hit on a superstar soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaiphoon Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 2 hours ago, turtle28 said: If they weren’t Good football players Gibbs would have cut them but hey, maybe you know more about football than a Hall of Fame head coach? Betts wasn’t injured that often and Cartwright was a good #3 back and they were both a core special teams players as a cover guys and a guys who never fumbled kick offs. I’m pessimistic about somethings, I’m just more optimistic than pessimistic and I have no problem pointing out when players screw up. Anyone would kill now for Betts over Kelley and Prine and if you wouldn’t be, you need to get your head checked! But on the flip side, Gibbs wasn't infallable. Remember when he said Desmond Howard "had no holes in his game" and blew a #4 pick on him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 3 hours ago, mike23md said: I actually would not. I would kill for Alfred Morris. Betts. Nah. And to say that Joe Gibbs had any clue about the game during that time would really be an overstatement. Vinny Cerrato was making the draft picks at that time. And he had no clue. Sometimes when I think about those times, its painful. There was no model for the team. There was no real leadership. And without McCloughan, there is no real leadership in Ashburn. Joe Gibbs 2.0 was a PR move to get people interested in the team again. Anything more than that is giving the move too much credit. And, Joe Gibbs never believed in the draft. He liked proven talent. So in terms of talking talent evaluation, yes, I would like to think I know more about it than he would. Gibbs determined who made the team though and he and Al Saunders determined their roles in the offense. That’s all I’m saying. I agree with the rest, especially that Gibbs liked vets. It’s why we did the stupid trade for Brunell and over paid him instead of just starting Ramsey and then drafting a qb in 05 if Ramsey didn’t show enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 25 minutes ago, Thaiphoon said: But on the flip side, Gibbs wasn't infallable. Remember when he said Desmond Howard "had no holes in his game" and blew a #4 pick on him? No doubt, great trade by Charley there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 2 hours ago, ripsean21 said: Which leads me to my next point friends!!!!! What do you guys think would have came if we let Greg Willaims take the job over after Gibbs? Yes we would have still had cerrato, but Williams was who I think most believed the guy who deserved the job! But this defense hasn’t been anything close to that since him once his guys started to cycle off the roster Defense would have remained top 10 for 08 & 09. In 09 team would have fallen apart because of injuries anyways but maybe he doesn’t do some of the dumb stuff Zorn did/said in 09 and GWilliams stays longer than just 2 years. In 09 our team was really old so, it was going to rebuilt over the next 3-5 seasons whether that was Cerrato and GWilliams or ShanAllen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 13 hours ago, ripsean21 said: You both make very good points I agree I just want guys that love football like Brown and Kerrigan. But I do think Betts was a heck of a number 2 who filled in well for Portis who I do agree was top 3 at his position for his prime in the league with LT and Alexander. Dilly dilly lol Marshall Faulk was better than Portis, Edge James was arguably better as was Curtis Martin and Bettis too. Martin should be in the hall of fame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dashing202 Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 I miss joe Gibbs in both eras his end zone play calling was better than what it is now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 9 minutes ago, Dashing202 said: I miss joe Gibbs in both eras his end zone play calling was better than what it is now It wasn’t even that complicated. Run the ball! Then, use motion to get the defenders running across the formation or make the defenders have to reset in their zone assignments and snap the ball either they are set. Easy stuff, which we don’t do either. Its so frustrating because we are so predictable in the redzone. We don’t run the ball enough, dont run the zone read enough, don’t do any motion in our offense, never run bootlegs or qb keepers. We should do all these things at least once a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostnote Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 When the ball is 1st and Goal, 2nd and Goal you have to run the ball once to set up a potential for play action. We just don't run the ball effectively or enough to allow for that to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeaReylo Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 On Monday, December 18, 2017 at 11:36 PM, Woz said: Petitbon was a sacrificial chicken: He made it so that the next long term head coach (which turned out to be Norv Turner *sigh*) was not the guy following a legend He was given a roster that was vet heavy just as the free agency era was starting. Dang yo, I ain't ever see anyone set up thst bad since Roger Rabbit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dashing202 Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 17 hours ago, turtle28 said: It wasn’t even that complicated. Run the ball! Then, use motion to get the defenders running across the formation or make the defenders have to reset in their zone assignments and snap the ball either they are set. Easy stuff, which we don’t do either. Its so frustrating because we are so predictable in the redzone. We don’t run the ball enough, dont run the zone read enough, don’t do any motion in our offense, never run bootlegs or qb keepers. We should do all these things at least once a game. What made his endzone calling good was bootlegs and play action fakes to the fullback or give it to the fullback .. we haven't done that since 2007... mike sellers was amazing in 2005 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dashing202 Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 14 hours ago, mike23md said: When the ball is 1st and Goal, 2nd and Goal you have to run the ball once to set up a potential for play action. We just don't run the ball effectively or enough to allow for that to happen. I like doing draw plays in shutgun like spread it out etc . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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