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brazilianguy

Team Needs?

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What about some little self scouting to gauge the early draft needs for the Seahawks?

 

OFFENSE

QB: Excellent. Wilson is an elite QB and iron man. We do need some insurance by drafting and developing a QB behind him. His past three seasons are the QB equivalent of a 400 carry RB season. This is a great draft for QBs, and I see the Seahawks wanting pick one in day three.

RB: Poor. Of our current stable of RBs, Lacy and Rawls are playing their way to a 2018 departure. We have tons of club control over Carson and Prosise have potential to be top 10 RBs, but their tape is very thin, because of injuries, and no team should rely on non-durable players. Davis and McKissic are decent players and the Seahawks have club control over their 2018 season, but the fact that they see consistent snaps on this offense just show how bad our talent available at RB is. This should be a priority position. JD McKissic also shows that a back that can line up at WR is extremely valuable in the way Seahawks set up their cap strategy. Very good three down backs that can run WR routes are expensive commodities at the draft, but this class of RBs is extremely deep and the Seahawks can choose from two strategies: (1) draft a close to a blue chip RB prospect with the first pick (like Damien Harris, Kerryon Johnson or Nick Chubb); (2) scout the hell out of the second or third wave of RBs and find the RB version of Shaquill Griffin mid round. First is safer.

FB: Good. Tre Madden is under strong club control and is one of the better, if not the best young FBs in the league imo. Durability is unfortunately a concern, but this is a low priority position. No pick.

WR: Very good. Baldwin and Lockett are under contract until 2020 and 2019 respectively and this is probably a top 10-15 1-2 WR punch. Amara Darboh (who is having a tough time trying to get snaps given our excellent WR #1 to WR #3 perfomance) and David Moore (his addition to 53 is telling that Carroll and Schneider are taking him in consideration for the long term) are under club control for three seasons beyond 2017, and, while I'm not in love with McEvoy, we have club control over him through 2019. The only FA is the very good Paul Richardson, but he's gonna be a cap casualty, unfortunately, given other priority extensions (Sheldon Richardson, Frank Clark, Earl Thomas, Duane Brown and Jimmy Graham, all FA in 2018 or priority FA in 2019 that should not be allowed to hit open market). The key to understang this logjam is how the Seahawks evaluate Darboh and Moore's development. I can see the Seahawks picking a WR on day two or three, but it'll largely depend on how this team views the prospect of Darboh and Moore being quality WR #3 or #4 in 2018.

TE: Bad. Wilson to Graham in the redzone is almost as stoppable as Brady to Gronk. Graham is a FA and it might be really, really difficult to keep without making significant roster moves. Luke Willson is a solid #2 TE, half decent starting TE, that should be signed if Graham has to go. Nick Vannett is slowly developing into "everything you want in a #2 TE". He's a very good blocker, runs very good routes, is showing great improvement in his chemistry with Wilson's scrambles and has legit hands. All of which is great. Seahawks has also strong club control over former QB, athletic TE Tyrone Swoopes and is definitely part of the equation moving forward. FA decision making on Graham and Willson will decide on the Seahawks approach on the TE position at the draft. If both leave, the Seahawks should be in for a TE in day two or three.

OT: Very good (!!). First, Fire Cable. The Seahawks control where Duane Brown plays until 2019, and I think he's gonna get an extension this offseason. Seahawks have club control over George Fant is a RFA in 2019 and is in a great position to be extended and cheaply develop under Brown and take over when he retires. Germain Ifedi would be a good RT in this league if he just cut down his penalties, and has all the untapped potential in the world. Given he does have penalties issues, he falls below average. I'm a believer that Ifedi is going to be one of the best RTs in the league with added experience, he's extremely young and is going to have from 2 to 3 years beyond 2017 to solidify his play in Seattle. In addition to that, Pocic's second best position in the NFL might be OT and we have club control over him through the end of 2020. Seahawks have a combo of starting quality (Brown, Ifedi), techinique (Brown, Pocic), untapped potential (Ifedi and Fant) and depth (Fant and Pocic) at both OT spots. No pick before day three.

OG: Poor. Joeckel and Aboushi are FA in the next offseason and should be goners. Both are decent pass protectors but are liabilities in the run game. We'll have Glowinski for one more season but his performance this season was horrible and he's a prime candidate for a cut. Odhiambo, Pocic and Roos are locked in long term, but I don't think any of them inspire any confidence. Pocic is showing himself to be a decent pass blocker and a technician, but he sucks in blocking for the run, like every other OG for the Seahawks, and his physical profile (way too tall and light) doesn't inspite confidence in his improvement. Much of our total lack of running game is imo on the lack of strong guard play imo. This is the OL position to target in the draft, from day one to three.

C: Set. Britt is what he is: excellent pass blocking center, below average run blocking center. He is a team leader and locked long term. We'll roll with him for a long time and the combo of Hunt and Pocic inspires me confidence in the depth. I don't understand well the rationale behind drafting Pocic and extending Britt, given the amazing talent pool available at the Seahawks 2nd pick last season. No need for a pick.

DEFENSE

DT: Set. Sheldon Richardson (who is a mandatory extension) and Jarran Reed play for the Seahawks, that alone makes the Seahawks defensive interior legit. They are definitely a top 10 DI duo, arguably top 5, with clear room to develop, specially as pass rushers. Along them we have Nazair Jones and Quinton Jefferson, who have been surprisingly good options as pass rushing DTs this season, all of which the Seahawks own great club control. Bennett should also be on the equation, because of his nickel DT play. If McDowell ever returns, he's a bonus, but he should be viewed as a 5T that can play 3T on nickel downs, imo. Others like Garrison Smith and Rodney Coe are replacement level players. To conclude this piece, the Seahawks will be set at DT for a long time as soon as Richardson inks that paper, but can't have too many defensive linemen, to the point that DT should be considered in the day three.

DE: Good, but delicate. Frank Clark should not be allowed to hit FA. He's very close to the upper tier of EDGE defenders, just need to find more discipline and cut down the penalties. Outside that, Bennett is declining, but still well above average for the position. Cliff Avril might not play football ever again, and even if he comes back for 2018, he might become cap casualty given the Seahawks limited cap situation and other priorities. Outside of those three, we only have club control over Branden Jackson's and Dion Jordan's future, and I doubt relying on them as future starters is a good thing. The nickel EDGE rusher position is a position of increasing value, and in my honest opinion, drafting someone to play the 2016 Frank Clark role is a high priority need, imo, and an early prime candidate for a day one or two pick. The fifth year option is extremely valuable at EDGE.

LB: Very Good. Bobby Wagner is currently the best Seahawk, is having an impecable season, and is only 27. Okay. But he shouldn't be played 97% of the snaps like he's playing, and neither should KJ Wright, who is also having a season below his own standards, and is gonna be 30 by the time he hits FA next season. Wilhoite is our first option at SAM, and is not good, neither is the depth behind Wright and Wagner. The Seahawks should make another KPL type of pick to develop a high quality depth option behind WW and take over if we part ways with Wright, imo. Day 2 or 3 pick need.

CB: Very Good. Richard Sherman is coming back next season extremely motivated, to play for another millionaire contract. We all know he's been elite for a long time and will probably come back to that form after the injury because his game relies on smarts. Shaquill Griffin was one of the best picks made by the Seahawks in a long time and he's here to stay, and the apparent heir to the Sheman's throne. Justin Coleman is playing at a high level as a pure slot CB, is a great fit mentality-wise and the Seahawks have club control over him, and should be in the Tyler Lockett/Duane Brown group of players that should see an early extension, but it might not be possible due to cap limitations. Outside of them, there's the group A, of Jeremy Lane, Byron Maxwell and DeShawn Shead, who are probably going to leave next offseson, and the Seahawks should prepare for those losses; and the group B, of DeAndre Elliott, Mike Tyson (all of which the Seahawks have extensive club control) and Neiko Thorpe, who should all be kept around on the cheap. There's a need, given Sherman's health and contract, and the imminent departure of significant depth, but not that pressing, and 2017 taught us that picking DBs higher when you are the best DB evaluator in the league is valuable. Day two or three. 

S: Good, but delicate. Earl Thomas, Kam Chancellor, Bradley McDougald is EXCELLENT on paper, but what if Chancellor never comes back? I doubt the Seahawks will be able to extend McDougald. Can't rule out the potential decline of Thomas and Chancellor, too. Luckily we have Tristan Thompson and Delano Hill, who have great college tape developing under them. I think the Seahawks should draft some insurance in for the scenario Kam retires/is not good anymore, McDougald leaves and Delano Hill can't handle the job - the chances are not that low at all. A player in the same mould as McDougald would be ideal (his versatility is showing up to be extremely valuable for this team), as TT and Hill looks more one-dimensional (one centerfielder, one box safety). Day two, but more likely day three.

K and P: Poor. Jon Ryan is great, but has a HUGE, unnecessary cap hit. Blair Walsh is not good. Seahawks could Draft one but UDFA is more likely.

 

 

TL;DR: IMO, there are early draft needs.

QB: day three level of need; RB: day one or two level of need; TE: depends on FA; WR: day two or three need; OT: no need or day three need; OG: every day need; OC: no need; DT: day three or no need; EDGE: day one or day two need; LB: day two or three need; CB: day two or three need; S: day two or three need; K and P: UDFA or day three need.

Edited by brazilianguy

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First off, great job with your write up.  I agree with you for the most part.  The one place I question is where you say the Seahawks are 'very good' at CB.  I agree with the depth argument you make, but I'm concerned about Richard Sherman.  Even if he does come back motivated, he will be 30 years old when next season starts and he's coming off of a ruptured Achilles.  That is one of the worst injuries to have and I'm not sure Sherman will ever be his elite self again.  Kobe Bryant had that same injury towards the end of his career.  Granted, he was older than Sherman and had other injuries as he continued to age, but he was never the same.  When Kobe ruptured his Achilles vs the Golden State Warriors back in 2013, he was one of the best players in the league and was averaging slightly over 27 points per game.  After that injury, Kobe was never elite anymore and this was a guy that everyone was certain would be elite since he is one of the greatest basketball players ever.

With all that said, you make great points about Griffin and Coleman being bright spots for the future.  I'm just not sure that either guy can be the true #1 CB when they replace Sherman on a more full-time basis, eventually. 

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@mike23md Hope you don't mind, but I merged your thread with one that was made last week.  If you now look at the opening post of this thread there is a detailed explanations of @brazilianguy thoughts on the team needs.  I think it's a good idea to continue to revisit this topic starting now until the NFL Draft/FA.

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On 12/9/2017 at 10:25 AM, brazilianguy said:

First, Fire Cable.

 

Team Need #1

If Cable survives the offseason, I'll have lost faith in Pete as our HC.

Agreed for the most part.  Not that gloomy on the RBs, wouldn't mind one in the 2nd-3rd unless the talents just too much in the 1st (don't know much about the upcoming class).  WR, I wouldn't mind a big body early.  I think Paul Richardson is gone, just too injury prone, don't want to take that risk.  I think we should move on from Jimmy, we don't utilize him fully and he has had his fair share of drops this year.  Brown will get his extension and I know Ifedi will get another year, although I'm not too optimistic about him developing.  As for OGs, I'd love to get a RG in the 2nd or 3rd.

Sheldon Richardson and Frank Clark should be extended and as mentioned, could look for another talent to add to the DE rotation early in the draft.  

Edited by Meeker

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We have a 1st, 4th, three 5ths, and two 7ths right now.

 

I imagine we will trade out of the first round again to pick up a 2nd and 4th. Then move back in the 2nd again to get a later 2nd and a 5th. Which gives us 9 total picks.

 

I hope we let Jimmy walk, trade Earl and Bennett, sign Brown, Clark, and Richardson, hope Kam and Sherm can come back strong. Avril retire.

Sherman was never a fast dude obviously. I'm curious to see if he legit loses a step and they try him at safety. He would be amazing coming down covering TEs. Draft a CB in round 2 to play outside opposite Griffin with Sherman, Mcdougald, and hopefully Chancellor at safety? Unlikely but interesting to think about.

 

Maybe go after Ansah to replace Bennett. Eifert to replace Graham.

 

Running backs we should roll with Carson, Mcissick, Davis, and a rookie. Cut the fragile, fat, and jackrabbit.

 

Hopefully sign a legit RG. I think a line of Brown - Pocic - Britt - Legit guard - Ifedi would be above average next year. Hell. Maybe try Fant at RT.

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16 hours ago, ThirtyOne-EightyNine said:

We have a 1st, 4th, three 5ths, and two 7ths right now.

 

I imagine we will trade out of the first round again to pick up a 2nd and 4th. Then move back in the 2nd again to get a later 2nd and a 5th. Which gives us 9 total picks.

 

I hope we let Jimmy walk, trade Earl and Bennett, sign Brown, Clark, and Richardson, hope Kam and Sherm can come back strong. Avril retire.

Sherman was never a fast dude obviously. I'm curious to see if he legit loses a step and they try him at safety. He would be amazing coming down covering TEs. Draft a CB in round 2 to play outside opposite Griffin with Sherman, Mcdougald, and hopefully Chancellor at safety? Unlikely but interesting to think about.

 

Maybe go after Ansah to replace Bennett. Eifert to replace Graham.

 

Running backs we should roll with Carson, Mcissick, Davis, and a rookie. Cut the fragile, fat, and jackrabbit.

 

Hopefully sign a legit RG. I think a line of Brown - Pocic - Britt - Legit guard - Ifedi would be above average next year. Hell. Maybe try Fant at RT.

Trade Earl Thomas?  Why?

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4 hours ago, showtime said:

Trade Earl Thomas?  Why?

I think we pay him too much for the limited plays he makes. I understand he is supposed to be the last line of defense but with his range he should be able to play closer to the line and still be that last line. But apparently he cant. He has whiffed a lot the past two years on tackling. He cant find the ball on the deep routes. Why pay him elite money when we can use that money to better the team elsewhere and pay someone else less to do that job. 

 

He makes a great play every now and then like at the Rams and against the Texans. But what else has he done? I think its time to move on and get the value we can for him.

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47 minutes ago, ThirtyOne-EightyNine said:

I think we pay him too much for the limited plays he makes. I understand he is supposed to be the last line of defense but with his range he should be able to play closer to the line and still be that last line. But apparently he cant. He has whiffed a lot the past two years on tackling. He cant find the ball on the deep routes. Why pay him elite money when we can use that money to better the team elsewhere and pay someone else less to do that job. 

 

He makes a great play every now and then like at the Rams and against the Texans. But what else has he done? I think its time to move on and get the value we can for him.

With all of that being said, Earl Thomas is still an elite safety.  He's arguably still the best safety covering the deep zone.  If the Seahawks were to trade Thomas, what would they get in return?  Unless it's something insane, I would rather keep Thomas.  I think the defense would suffer a large regression without Thomas in the lineup.

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1 hour ago, showtime said:

With all of that being said, Earl Thomas is still an elite safety.  He's arguably still the best safety covering the deep zone.  If the Seahawks were to trade Thomas, what would they get in return?  Unless it's something insane, I would rather keep Thomas.  I think the defense would suffer a large regression without Thomas in the lineup.

Maybe. Hes had an off 2 years in my opinion. Looks lost often and doesnt seem to trust himself to make plays. Most games you dont even see him come into frame until its too late.

 I would take a 2018 2nd and 6th and 2019 3rd for him and one of our 5th round picks. 

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15 hours ago, ThirtyOne-EightyNine said:

Maybe. Hes had an off 2 years in my opinion. Looks lost often and doesnt seem to trust himself to make plays. Most games you dont even see him come into frame until its too late.

 I would take a 2018 2nd and 6th and 2019 3rd for him and one of our 5th round picks. 

I disagree.  I wouldn't trade Thomas for that, I think he's more valuable as a member of the Seahawks secondary.  This team isn't really all that far off from contending with the Rams for the NFC title.  Defensively, guys need to get healthy again.  Offensively, the team needs to address the interior offensive line and the running back issues.  I would also love to add a big bodied WR to compliment Baldwin, Richardson and the other guys.

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For me...

1. Pass Rusher / Defensive Line Depth

Clark cant do it himself. 

Sheldon might not resign (or be too expensive) so really you are looking at MB, Naz and Reed. This team struggled once the d-line got thin. MB has been playing on a bad leg all year. Dont think they can rely on Jefferson, Jordan, Smith.

 

2. Defensive Playmaker

Seattle does have alot of them, but their all on the a downward trend (except Wags). They need another young guy to come in a make a splash. Shaq was a nice addition, Delano and Tedric seems to have the staffs eye. Need more though.

 

3. WR 

P-Rich gonna be too rich. Lockett and Baldwin are nice, but its a thick fog after them. Darboh and Moore are too unknown to really trust them.

 

4. OG

Need another body to come in a compete. Hambone, Pocic, Roos are not going to cut it. Probably looking at a 4th-5th round rookie and bargain bin vet to add.

 

5. TE

Graham is gone. Too expensive. Vannett is intriguing, Willson is reliable. Not sure what they can do here. Late round TE pretty much profile to what they already have (above average athlete, decent to good blocking)

 

6. Kicker

WalshGawd taketh away toth much.

 

7. HB / OT / LB

Carson - Davis is a nice 1-2. They are unproven, so bring in anther 2-3 guys to compete. Take 6th ot 7th round flier on someone. CJ is still a thing too. But not someone Seattle should rely on. Brown - Ifedi - Fant - Hambone is an ok setup. If Fant can come back 100%, wonder if Ifedi can slide down to guard? A 3rd LB would be nice, someone to fill in if KJ or Bobby go down. Im not a huge fan of Garvin. But too many other more important positions to focus on.

 

Seattle has found decent depth guys when they dont spend 3+ picks on the OL. Schni - Pete gotta work their magic this draft to keep the train chugging along.

 

 

 

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