2018 Packer DEFENSE Discussion

[Hands]

1 hour ago, squire12 said:

Lets hope that Rodgers is taking a cue from Brady and maybe will follow that thinking in his next contract.  

What, you can't compare the two. Brady has a wife that brings in double what he does. So it doesn't matter that much to Brady as long as they keep winning.

[squire12]

39 minutes ago, Hands said:

What, you can't compare the two. Brady has a wife that brings in double what he does. So it doesn't matter that much to Brady as long as they keep winning.

If Rodgers wants to make more $$, that is fine, but the cost of him wanting that might be a lesser talented team around him and thus a harder road to travel to win rings.  

It is not like he has to take as much as he can, he has a choice and the ramifications of those choices need to be understood.

[MacReady]

8 hours ago, Hands said:

What, you can't compare the two. Brady has a wife that brings in double what he does. So it doesn't matter that much to Brady as long as they keep winning.

Yes you can though.  It's the curse of the QB position.  If you're a QB and you want to win Super Bowls, you have to  understand that's tough to do with your contract.  Favre, Manning, Brees, Brady... They all took less than they should have or could have taken.  I don't see Rodgers doing that.  Him commenting on Glennon's contract is just another example in a long list of examples of why I want to trade Rodgers before he hits 37.  We're not the Aarons, we're the Packers.  People gotta understand this.  Everybody said the Seahawks would be fine with Wilson's second contract.  The Seahawks are not fine. 

[AlexGreen#20]

Blaming the Seahawks not winning anymore SBs on Wilson's contract is an oversimplification. The Seahawks simply stopped being able to draft even a little bit. As soon as they stopped being able to pull elite draft classes, the talent level on the roster dropped off a cliff. 

[MacReady]

Just now, AlexGreen#20 said:

Blaming the Seahawks not winning anymore SBs on Wilson's contract is an oversimplification. The Seahawks simply stopped being able to draft even a little bit. As soon as they stopped being able to pull elite draft classes, the talent level on the roster dropped off a cliff. 

True, and granted, but the talent was still on that team.  Say what you want about Sherman without Chancellor, Sherman with Chancellor has been the best at what he does for a very long time now.  How many years has it been since Wilson's contract was signed?  They've had Thomas, Sherman, Chancellor, Wagner, Avril, Bennett...

They weren't able to sign an Avril or Bennett once they had to pay Wilson, and the Avril and Bennett signings were wildly influential to their success.  They traded a second round pick for a player they won't be able to afford to re-sign, too. 

It's not like they've been missing on the draft picks because they've been trading their draft picks. 

Everybody here wants free agents.  You can't get free agents when you're paying a top QB.  The Patriots are the exception, but most of their acquisitions were trades and bargain free agents.  The only real big ones were Revis and Gilmore.  Revis they couldn't afford to keep more than one year, and their defense right now is devoid of talent outside of the secondary.  Their next DC is gonna have a tough time.  And all that's with Brady, who gets paid about 8 million less than he should. 

[Hands]

32 minutes ago, HorizontoZenith said:

True, and granted, but the talent was still on that team.  Say what you want about Sherman without Chancellor, Sherman with Chancellor has been the best at what he does for a very long time now.  How many years has it been since Wilson's contract was signed?  They've had Thomas, Sherman, Chancellor, Wagner, Avril, Bennett...

They weren't able to sign an Avril or Bennett once they had to pay Wilson, and the Avril and Bennett signings were wildly influential to their success.  They traded a second round pick for a player they won't be able to afford to re-sign, too. 

It's not like they've been missing on the draft picks because they've been trading their draft picks. 

Everybody here wants free agents.  You can't get free agents when you're paying a top QB.  The Patriots are the exception, but most of their acquisitions were trades and bargain free agents.  The only real big ones were Revis and Gilmore.  Revis they couldn't afford to keep more than one year, and their defense right now is devoid of talent outside of the secondary.  Their next DC is gonna have a tough time.  And all that's with Brady, who gets paid about 8 million less than he should. 

Seattle's downfall in pass  defense lies at the feet of one guy....Earl Thomas. You take him out of the game, and they can't maintain their coverage, hence their rushers don't get to the QB. The difference in Thomas is having a good defense verses a great one. That is why teams are drafting safeties higher each year....in hopes of getting another Thomas. That guy reminds me of Bob Saunders (Thomas is better, but their impact is the same) of Indy, except Thomas has stayed healthy for most of his career.

[MacReady]

Just now, Hands said:

Seattle's downfall in pass  defense lies at the feet of one guy....Earl Thomas. You take him out of the game, and they can't maintain their coverage, hence their rushers don't get to the QB. The difference in Thomas is having a good defense verses a great one. That is why teams are drafting safeties higher each year....in hopes of getting another Thomas. That guy reminds me of Bob Saunders (Thomas is better, but their impact is the same) of Indy, except Thomas has stayed healthy for most of his career.

Earl Thomas started 14 games this year. 

[Pugger]

1 hour ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Blaming the Seahawks not winning anymore SBs on Wilson's contract is an oversimplification. The Seahawks simply stopped being able to draft even a little bit. As soon as they stopped being able to pull elite draft classes, the talent level on the roster dropped off a cliff. 

Yup, that can happen when you aren't drafting as high as you once did after you start winning consistently.  And I'm not just talking about the first round.  When you drafting higher than #15 you are doing so in subsequent rounds too.

[pacman5252]

Although Wilson's contract does make a difference, the downfall of Seattle has mostly been their drafting;

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/sea/draft.htm

2010-2012 they completely crushed it (potentially 4 HOFers in Earl Thomas, Kam, Wilson, Sherman.. couple more pro bowlers). Since then though, it has been pretty rough. 

[ChaRisMa]

42 minutes ago, Hands said:

Seattle's downfall in pass  defense lies at the feet of one guy....Earl Thomas. You take him out of the game, and they can't maintain their coverage, hence their rushers don't get to the QB. The difference in Thomas is having a good defense verses a great one. That is why teams are drafting safeties higher each year....in hopes of getting another Thomas. That guy reminds me of Bob Saunders (Thomas is better, but their impact is the same) of Indy, except Thomas has stayed healthy for most of his career.

Dan Quinn left. ATL is just a few superstars short of that defense.

[squire12]

3 minutes ago, pacman5252 said:

Although Wilson's contract does make a difference, the downfall of Seattle has mostly been their drafting;

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/sea/draft.htm

2010-2012 they completely crushed it (potentially 4 HOFers in Earl Thomas, Kam, Wilson, Sherman.. couple more pro bowlers). Since then though, it has been pretty rough. 

Certainly the variance of continuing to hit on draft picks is a similar theme for all teams.  TT and GB went through a "hot streak" and that was followed by a "cold streak".  Yes, draft capital will affect that, but that is really just the first few rounds of heavy influence.  Of those players listed, only Thomas was a 1st round pick, the rest are later round picks.  

[Shanedorf]

offseason piece from packers.com on Herb Waters, another WR -> CB conversion project sponsored by Joe Whitt

http://www.packers.com/news-and-events/article-player-feature/article-1/Herb-Waters-glad-he-stuck-around-Green-Bay/55ecdb61-0b23-4b89-ad71-1f6946a5415c

"The Packers and position coach Joe Whitt wanted Waters to give cornerback a shot.

“Coming out of high school, Charlie Strong wanted me to come to Louisville to play corner,” Waters said. “I played in high school but I said no because I wanted to play receiver. I talked to the guys in the (cornerbacks) room and they’re like, ‘See, you should’ve played corner.’”

Whitt, who previously shepherded the conversion of Sam Shields from a Miami (Fla.) receiver to Pro Bowl cornerback, liked Waters’ makeup. At 6-foot, 188 pounds, Waters’ size, speed, quickness and arm length made him an ideal candidate to make a position switch.

Waters showed enough progress during his rookie year to not only warrant staying on the Packers’ practice squad in 2016, but also earn a call-up to the 53-man roster during the team’s playoff run."

 

[Shanedorf]

Packers Safeties 2018

 

Going into 2017, Packer fans were feeling pretty damn good about the safety position, 5 deep with talented guys.

A year later and the picture looks a little different. I don't know squat, but these are things I've read

HaHa-  Weird season for him as he was asked to do things he's not used to. Wants to be a leader, not there yet. Effort ? Should thrive under Pettine....  FA 2019

Burnett- QB of the defense, missed more games. FA decision looming. Pettine needs a vet to lean on, maybe he has one from his past teams....  FA 2018

Jones -  Injuries forced him to play too many positions, his head was swimming and his athleticism couldn't show...  FA 2020

Brice - hits like a truck. Fast and not as stiff as Roberston Daniel, but still limited in coverage. more SS than FS...  FA 2019

Evans- solid ST guy, limited on the field...RFA 2019 ?

Whitehead - needs more time

 

I know its low on the list, but it appears there's room/need to add some talent to the Safety group. Doubly so if Burnett departs.

[Dubz41]

10 minutes ago, Shanedorf said:

Packers Safeties 2018

 

Going into 2017, Packer fans were feeling pretty damn good about the safety position, 5 deep with talented guys.

A year later and the picture looks a little different. I don't know squat, but these are things I've read

HaHa-  Weird season for him as he was asked to do things he's not used to. Wants to be a leader, not there yet. Effort ? Should thrive under Pettine....  FA 2019

Burnett- QB of the defense, missed more games. FA decision looming. Pettine needs a vet to lean on, maybe he has one from his past teams....  FA 2018

Jones -  Injuries forced him to play too many positions, his head was swimming and his athleticism couldn't show...  FA 2020

Brice - hits like a truck. Fast and not as stiff as Roberston Daniel, but still limited in coverage. more SS than FS...  FA 2019

Evans- solid ST guy, limited on the field...RFA 2019 ?

Whitehead - needs more time

 

I know its low on the list, but it appears there's room/need to add some talent to the Safety group. Doubly so if Burnett departs.

I think we've oversold our Safety position.  That's why we should jump on Derwin James if he falls to us in the draft.  It would facilitate moving J Jones to nickel LB and light a fire under HaHa.  We don't have to sign Burnett until after the draft.  Wait and see.

[squire12]

6 minutes ago, Dubz41 said:

I think we've oversold our Safety position.  That's why we should jump on Derwin James if he falls to us in the draft.  It would facilitate moving J Jones to nickel LB and light a fire under HaHa.  We don't have to sign Burnett until after the draft.  Wait and see.

I would highly doubt that Burnett will still be a FA after the 2018 draft.  He will be signed long before the draft, whether that is by GB or another team.