2018 Packer DEFENSE Discussion

[pollino14]

32 minutes ago, skibrett15 said:

To me, the best player who MIGHT be available is Ndomukong Suh.  Not a position of need, but man, that would be a splurge I could get behind.

I haven’t heard too much from him, is he still a dominant force? 

But yeah, it’s time to make a splash . 

[Norm]

6 minutes ago, pollino14 said:

I haven’t heard too much from him, is he still a dominant force? 

But yeah, it’s time to make a splash . 

He is. He never stopped. People just stopped talking about him.

That would be crazy if he ended up here. He's over 30 these days though

[pollino14]

1 hour ago, NormSizedMidget said:

He is. He never stopped. People just stopped talking about him.

That would be crazy if he ended up here. He's over 30 these days though

Would he be able to play 3-4 End? 

 

What does everyone think of the idea of either signing a big name FA pass rusher or potential moving up ( and giving up) a lot for a player like Chubb in the draft?

[CWood21]

1 hour ago, pollino14 said:

I haven’t heard too much from him, is he still a dominant force? 

But yeah, it’s time to make a splash . 

He's a bit of a nutcase, but if the Jets release Muhammad Wilkerson a 1 year deal could be intriguing for both sides.

[Norm]

7 minutes ago, pollino14 said:

Would he be able to play 3-4 End? 

 

What does everyone think of the idea of either signing a big name FA pass rusher or potential moving up ( and giving up) a lot for a player like Chubb in the draft?

The least of me worries. If you are signing Suh, you are gonna make it work for him. Not fit him into any box.

I bugged ya about this already I think, but I just don't think there's much of a chance of any "big name FA pass rusher" to sign. We keep talking about doing it, but  I don't see who in the heck it is.

[Norm]

2 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

He's a bit of a nutcase, but if the Jets release Muhammad Wilkerson a 1 year deal could be intriguing for both sides.

I'm relatively confident he's gonna get cut too. It's interesting, IDK where I lean on that, I sure would be excited to see how it played if it happened.

[MacReady]

Just now, pollino14 said:

What does everyone think of the idea of either signing a big name FA pass rusher or potential moving up ( and giving up) a lot for a player like Chubb in the draft?

You don't get big name free agent pass rushers.  They're unicorns.  You get productive ones like Peppers and such, but big name pass rushers don't happen anymore.  Look up all the past big name free agent pass rushers and see how well they do.  Vernon was the last one and he's got 13 sacks.  In two years. Also, there aren't any. 

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/defensive-end/

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/outside-linebacker/

Only one that's really close to "big name" is Ansah, and I don't want to throw money at him.  Dude's got 8 sacks in the past two years, 6 this year in a contract year.

Don't see the point in trading up for a pass rusher when one of the top 3-4 will probably be where we pick since we'll probably be picking 13-15th. 

[CWood21]

13 minutes ago, pollino14 said:

What does everyone think of the idea of either signing a big name FA pass rusher or potential moving up ( and giving up) a lot for a player like Chubb in the draft?

It's gonna be insanely expensive to move up high enough to guarantee a shot at Chubb.  You're most likely going to need a top 5 pick in order to ensure you get him, so assuming the Packers are picking in that 12-14 range if they lose out, you're moving up 7-9 spots.  The most recent time a team moved from that 12-14 range into the top 5 was in 2013, when the Dolphins traded their 1st round pick (12th overall) and their 2nd round pick (42nd overall).  And I think that goes more with what the desperation that the Raiders had to move down.  To me, that's a bare minimum in terms of trade value.  Probably need to add more.

[th87]

On 12/18/2017 at 6:17 PM, CWood21 said:

We said the same damn thing before the Packers hired Dom Capers..

Yeah, 9 years ago.

[{Family Ghost}]

13 hours ago, NormSizedMidget said:

The least of me worries. If you are signing Suh, you are gonna make it work for him. Not fit him into any box.

I bugged ya about this already I think, but I just don't think there's much of a chance of any "big name FA pass rusher" to sign. We keep talking about doing it, but  I don't see who in the heck it is.

Yeah .. no doubt .. we kept screaming for Melvin Ingram last year and he never got to the market.  Teams just don't let good pass rushers hit the market very often.  If one does get there he's going to cost a bundle.  

13 hours ago, CWood21 said:

It's gonna be insanely expensive to move up high enough to guarantee a shot at Chubb.  You're most likely going to need a top 5 pick in order to ensure you get him, so assuming the Packers are picking in that 12-14 range if they lose out, you're moving up 7-9 spots.  The most recent time a team moved from that 12-14 range into the top 5 was in 2013, when the Dolphins traded their 1st round pick (12th overall) and their 2nd round pick (42nd overall).  And I think that goes more with what the desperation that the Raiders had to move down.  To me, that's a bare minimum in terms of trade value.  Probably need to add more.

I would give up a 1st and 2nd, along with a 4th, or next years 3rd to land a pro bowl caliber pass rusher.  It would be worth it. 

[Joe]

15 hours ago, skibrett15 said:

To me, the best player who MIGHT be available is Ndomukong Suh.  Not a position of need, but man, that would be a splurge I could get behind.

Suh is actually at a position of need, but at this point in his career, I seriously question how successful he would be in any defense except for maybe the Patriots. Suh has been an absolute bust since going to Miami. 

I still contend that we need to fire Capers, move to a 4-3, and focus on a power rushing scheme. We don't have guys who are more finesse pass rushers like Von Miller, our guys are power rushers all the way. I've been on assignment with work at an office in Mansfield, MA just outside of Foxboro so I've gotten to see a lot of Patriot football recently. If we ran a defense similar to that of New England's, we should be able to mask our short term deficiencies while we retool the front-7. i think we have the players to make this adjustment and could add to our front-7 as we go and still be successful. Injuries aside, I think we can agree that our secondary is underrated when completely healthy.

[Norm]

26 minutes ago, Joe said:

Suh is actually at a position of need, but at this point in his career, I seriously question how successful he would be in any defense except for maybe the Patriots. Suh has been an absolute bust since going to Miami. 

I still contend that we need to fire Capers, move to a 4-3, and focus on a power rushing scheme. We don't have guys who are more finesse pass rushers like Von Miller, our guys are power rushers all the way. I've been on assignment with work at an office in Mansfield, MA just outside of Foxboro so I've gotten to see a lot of Patriot football recently. If we ran a defense similar to that of New England's, we should be able to mask our short term deficiencies while we retool the front-7. i think we have the players to make this adjustment and could add to our front-7 as we go and still be successful. Injuries aside, I think we can agree that our secondary is underrated when completely healthy.

He's not a bust in Miami though. He's played at a high level. Maybe for the money, sure. Still a high end player imo

[AlexGreen#20]

49 minutes ago, Joe said:

Suh is actually at a position of need, but at this point in his career, I seriously question how successful he would be in any defense except for maybe the Patriots. Suh has been an absolute bust since going to Miami. 

I still contend that we need to fire Capers, move to a 4-3, and focus on a power rushing scheme. We don't have guys who are more finesse pass rushers like Von Miller, our guys are power rushers all the way. I've been on assignment with work at an office in Mansfield, MA just outside of Foxboro so I've gotten to see a lot of Patriot football recently. If we ran a defense similar to that of New England's, we should be able to mask our short term deficiencies while we retool the front-7. i think we have the players to make this adjustment and could add to our front-7 as we go and still be successful. Injuries aside, I think we can agree that our secondary is underrated when completely healthy.

How is Suh at a position of need? No matter what defense you play, Suh is a 3-T. Daniels is a 3-T. You're paying a ton of scratch to sit one of those guys at the 1, and then you're putting Clark on the bench. Yes, Suh is an upgrade over Daniels, but not so much you pay that premium to upgrade it. If you can move Daniels for a 1st round pick or something similarly you might do it, but I don't see that happening. Additionally I would be very worried about adding Suh to any team in which Aaron Rodgers needs to sign an extension with shortly. 

What do you think we should be doing similar to what New England does?

[skibrett15]

2 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

How is Suh at a position of need? No matter what defense you play, Suh is a 3-T. Daniels is a 3-T. You're paying a ton of scratch to sit one of those guys at the 1, and then you're putting Clark on the bench. Yes, Suh is an upgrade over Daniels, but not so much you pay that premium to upgrade it. If you can move Daniels for a 1st round pick or something similarly you might do it, but I don't see that happening. Additionally I would be very worried about adding Suh to any team in which Aaron Rodgers needs to sign an extension with shortly. 

What do you think we should be doing similar to what New England does?

It's not a position of need at all.  I do think a trio of Clark/Daniels/Suh could be effective though, even though they aren't all seeing the field at once except in heavy.  There's enough snaps for those 3 to rotate evenly and have everyone stay healthier and fresher.

Suh just takes all of Lowry and Dial's snaps from this year, and on 3rd downs you can play this pressure package:

Suh, Daniels, Martinez, Matthews, Perry, and 6 DBs.  Or add an OLB draft pick and 5 DBs.

[Joe]

4 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

What do you think we should be doing similar to what New England does?

I've only seen about month's worth of their games so bear with me. The consistency that stands out to me is that they have similar personnel that's running more of a power rush than a speed rush and they rarely drop their EDGE guys into coverage. We have a much softer approach and they're both more aggressive and consistent with their blitz packages. It's kinda hard to describe here, but if you watch what they do with essentially the same types of players vs. what we do, it's very different.