Larry Fitz in a better spot.

[Mossburg]

So I think if Fitzgerald was drafted by the Patriots he could have had a great chance to surpass, or at least match Jerry Rice's career to where there could be a debate. The guy is about to post his 3rd straight 100 catch season in his 14th year. A chunk of his career was basically wasted by the turds around him, and he barely had any chances to make a dent in the playoffs, and when he did he did some legit yolo madness.

That's basically what it would take to get into Rice's tier, a guy who has insane talent and work ethic, and is super lucky with his surroundings and health. Am I crazy? Or was this really the only guy who had a super legit chance and he was just unlucky where he was drafted?

[eagles18]

Fitz is arguably the GOAT. He never had a QB with the exception of Warner for a couple years. 

[El Ramster]

10 minutes ago, Mossburg said:

So I think if Fitzgerald was drafted by the Patriots he could have had a great chance to surpass, or at least match Jerry Rice's career to where there could be a debate. The guy is about to post his 3rd straight 100 catch season in his 14th year. A chunk of his career was basically wasted by the turds around him, and he barely had any chances to make a dent in the playoffs, and when he did he did some legit yolo madness.

That's basically what it would take to get into Rice's tier, a guy who has insane talent and work ethic, and is super lucky with his surroundings and health. Am I crazy? Or was this really the only guy who had a super legit chance and he was just unlucky where he was drafted?

Not sure.. Pretty sure he was forced the ball plenty of times.. You can't even.. If you want to feel bad for someone who wasted their prime!

Be sad for Steven Jackson.. Fitz is what he is.. Will always be a tier below Owens and Moss for me.

[ET80]

26 minutes ago, Mossburg said:

So I think if Fitzgerald was drafted by the Patriots he could have had a great chance to surpass, or at least match Jerry Rice's career to where there could be a debate.

I don't think so - nothing to do with talent, everything to do with longevity. It's clear Fitz has declined at 33/34. He's taken good care of himself, never injured, but he's simply not fast or strong enough to make an elite level impact any

Rice, on the other hand was setting career highs at 33/34. Rice was 36 when he started to decline like Fitzgerald is now, and even then was posting 800/1,000 yard seasons.

It's time we looked at Rice's longevity the same way we look at Moss' down field speed or Owens' strength or Fitzgerald's hands - a distinct talent that can't be transcribed to another player in a comparison perspective.

[Forge]

2 minutes ago, EliteTexan80 said:

I don't think so - nothing to do with talent, everything to do with longevity. It's clear Fitz has declined at 33/34. He's taken good care of himself, never injured, but he's simply not fast or strong enough to make an elite level impact any

Rice, on the other hand was setting career highs at 33/34. Rice was 36 when he started to decline like Fitzgerald is now, and even then was posting 800/1,000 yard seasons.

It's time we looked at Rice's longevity the same way we look at Moss' down field speed or Owens' strength or Fitzgerald's hands - a distinct talent that can't be transcribed to another player in a comparison perspective.

It really is...at age 40, the dude had 90+ catches and 1200 yards. Completely insane. 

[Incarcerated_Scarface]

31 minutes ago, Mossburg said:

So I think if Fitzgerald was drafted by the Patriots he could have had a great chance to surpass, or at least match Jerry Rice's career to where there could be a debate. The guy is about to post his 3rd straight 100 catch season in his 14th year. A chunk of his career was basically wasted by the turds around him, and he barely had any chances to make a dent in the playoffs, and when he did he did some legit yolo madness.

That's basically what it would take to get into Rice's tier, a guy who has insane talent and work ethic, and is super lucky with his surroundings and health. Am I crazy? Or was this really the only guy who had a super legit chance and he was just unlucky where he was drafted?

OK, maybe he was drafted by a bad team but he's had chances to leave and HE chose to stay on that team. He could've told them he doesn't want an extension but he kept signing them, just like he did this year I think. He's a great guy and player but he's kind of stupid to think staying on the Cards when they have no QB is good for his chances of bringing home a ring to AZ. 

 

As far as him surpassing Rice, I doubt it. 

[Jetzger]

He played in a pass happy offense getting a ton of targets with another great receiver across from him for years.  During the nadir of the Cardinals offensive output from 2012-2014 he wasn't even leading the team in receiving yards.  We've seen lots of receivers put up monster seasons with bad QB play, the effect a QB has on a receiver's bulk numbers is overrated.  His situation throughout his career isn't as bad as it's routinely made out to be.

[Forge]

I think that people take for granted that better teams = better production from a stud player. I just don't think that is the case. At least not with regards to regular season production. Yes, he probably would have had an even greater post season profile based on more opportunity, but I don't know that putting him on the Pats for all those years significantly increases his actual numbers. 

[El Ramster]

1 minute ago, Forge said:

I think that people take for granted that better teams = better production from a stud player. I just don't think that is the case. At least not with regards to regular season production. Yes, he probably would have had an even greater post season profile based on more opportunity, but I don't know that putting him on the Pats for all those years significantly increases his actual numbers. 

They did for Wes.. But we saw he paid a price for those numbers. 

[Forge]

Just now, El ramster said:

They did for Wes.. But we saw he paid a price for those numbers. 

In fairness, I don't think that Welker was a great player. I think that you can get an incredible jump for average / above average players in the right situation statistically...but stud players? I just don't see that. Kind of like the law of diminishing returns I guess. 

 

[ET80]

6 minutes ago, Forge said:

It really is...at age 40, the dude had 90+ catches and 1200 yards. Completely insane. 

At 33 - when most guys start falling into the "he's declining, should he retire?" discussion - Rice set the single season yardage record, with 17 TDs to boot.

If you really sit and think about it, longevity like that is probably something we'll never see again.

[El Ramster]

1 minute ago, Forge said:

In fairness, I don't think that Welker was a great player. I think that you can get an incredible jump for average / above average players in the right situation statistically...but stud players? I just don't see that. Kind of like the law of diminishing returns I guess. 

 

I think he was a phenomenal player. His route running was a beauty to watch.. His separation ability was A1.. Specially in traffic.. But he did pay the price and

oh my what a price he paid.. I don't think we've seen Wes Welker production since oh well Wes Welker? 

[Mossburg]

I think Fitz decline a peg some years ago, but he hasn't kept declining. He's been playing at a high level for a while and it seems like he can keep doing it for years to come.

[showtime]

1 minute ago, Mossburg said:

I think Fitz decline a peg some years ago, but he hasn't kept declining. He's been playing at a high level for a while and it seems like he can keep doing it for years to come.

I agree with this.  Fitzgerald's game isn't built on speed and athletic ability.  He's a tremendous route runner and still has amazing hands.  His football IQ is off the charts.  As long as he stays healthy, he should be a productive receiver for a while longer.

[Mossburg]

Also people saying a better team or QB wouldn't make that much of a difference, you're telling me the chemistry Manning and Harrison had would do nothing for Larry production?