Who deserves more blame Hue or Kizer?

[H2ThaIzzo]

13 hours ago, Rod Johnson said:

He has great size, durability thus far, athleticism, underrated elusiveness when under pressure.  He's more than an arm.  He may not have what's necessary upstairs to be great in this league, but most guys don't. I'd say there's a 50% chance he will still be in the league 8 years from now off those qualities.

I think Kizer's confidence issues are overblown.  He threw one of the most disgraceful interceptions to end the Packers game and said that if Clay didn't hit his arm strike up the band.  I think sometimes too much confidence in his arm is the issue.

Also Hue has done a disgraceful job coaching this team and Sashi did a terrible job of putting reliable receivers in place.  We send our scrubs on go routes all game, and Gordon helps, but it's not like that guy had a chance to grasp the offense.  Ricardo Louis, Higgins, the platoon of UDFA guys that cycle on and off our team seem similarly clueless.  David Njoku is talented but too raw to see the field for 50% of the snaps.

I like Kizer for what he is, and I think we should take a QB #1, it's not mutually exclusive in my mind.  I think he's a top tier backup with trade value.

 

So essentially he has every tangible trait of an NFL QB except for accuracy, decision making, being able to read defenses? In other words, he's a round 2 Jamarcus Russell. 

 

As far as confidence in his arm, that certainly isn't the problem. Watch him throw a deep ball to an open receiver. He becomes Jim from American Pie when Nadia gets naked and offers him a shot at third base. 

[bruceb]

On 12/20/2017 at 1:49 PM, freakygeniuskid said:

What the heck happened to that guy end of 2016 into the offseason? He looked like a REALLY good backup last year, and then he can't hit  barn in training camp? That's such a huge mystery to me that no one is talking about.

Cueball killed his confidence.

Read this: http://brownswire.usatoday.com/2017/08/01/browns-qb-competition-quickly-leaning-toward-deshone-kizer/

His completion % >>> Kizer.

Kizer's is what it was. I do not know whether this plays into Ditch's conspiracy theory about this season but Cueball actually did us a favor by starting Kizer.

With Kessler, we probably would have won a few games and lost the chance to get a real QB.

[Thomas5737]

On 12/20/2017 at 1:49 PM, freakygeniuskid said:

What the heck happened to that guy end of 2016 into the offseason? He looked like a REALLY good backup last year, and then he can't hit  barn in training camp? That's such a huge mystery to me that no one is talking about.

He sucked in camp last year too, that is why he was 3rd string and needed injuries to see game action. Practice is a different game, especially with someone with a weak arm he may need that adrenaline to succeed. I know I always needed it, I was a garbage practice player at every sport. There is no real competition and my body knew it. Game time, I was more competent.

[Rod Johnson]

21 minutes ago, H2ThaIzzo said:

So essentially he has every tangible trait of an NFL QB except for accuracy, decision making, being able to read defenses? In other words, he's a round 2 Jamarcus Russell. 

 

As far as confidence in his arm, that certainly isn't the problem. Watch him throw a deep ball to an open receiver. He becomes Jim from American Pie when Nadia gets naked and offers him a shot at third base. 

Jamarcus was obese and addicted to codeine.  Y'all really wanna compare him to anybody.

[bruceb]

On 12/19/2017 at 12:36 PM, DaWg_LB. said:

I am going to watch the game this weekend.....if we do not get the win, over the bears, I will be 100% convinced that Hue Jackson cannot beat an NFL level coach unless he has Overwhelming Veteran talent and depth advantage over the team he's coaching against...

And this is exactly what is so horribly wrong with the Cueball/Williams/Dorsey trashing of the talent on the team.

Who couldn't win with that?

[H2ThaIzzo]

1 hour ago, Rod Johnson said:

Jamarcus was obese and addicted to codeine.  Y'all really wanna compare him to anybody.

Let's ignore the on field similarities that fit and immediately jump into how their off field backgrounds don't relate. 

[Rod Johnson]

1 minute ago, H2ThaIzzo said:

Let's ignore the on field similarities that fit and immediately jump into how their off field backgrounds don't relate. 

Umm Jamarcus was obese and addicted to codeine while he was on the field as well.

[H2ThaIzzo]

1 hour ago, Rod Johnson said:

Umm Jamarcus was obese and addicted to codeine while he was on the field as well.

Maybe Kizer needs to gain a few and sip that purple drank some then. Russell at least won a few games. 

 

And    You    Keep     Ignoring     The      Fact       That      Neither          QB       Did      Anything          Good           Besides          Throwing        A         Football          Far

[Rod Johnson]

13 minutes ago, H2ThaIzzo said:

Maybe Kizer needs to gain a few and sip that purple drank some then. Russell at least won a few games. 

 

And    You    Keep     Ignoring     The      Fact       That      Neither          QB       Did      Anything          Good           Besides          Throwing        A         Football          Far

It's a garbage comparison.  There's plenty of guys you can compare Kizer to that played a long time on the virtue of their arm strength.

Derek Anderson, Rex Grossman, Weeden, etc.

You chose to compare him to the biggest bust of all time that earned that title largely because he was fat and addicted drugs.  If he had Kizer's head he would have had a decent career, but he was a legendary screw-up.  That's not a good comparison.

Oh and he was bigger and his arm was stronger too.  Their on field performance isn't that comparable except DURRR THEIR ARMS ARE STRONG BUT THEYRE BAD!11!!1!!1

[H2ThaIzzo]

1 hour ago, Rod Johnson said:

It's a garbage comparison.  There's plenty of guys you can compare Kizer to that played a long time on the virtue of their arm strength.

Derek Anderson, Rex Grossman, Weeden, etc.

You chose to compare him to the biggest bust of all time that earned that title largely because he was fat and addicted drugs.  If he had Kizer's head he would have had a decent career, but he was a legendary screw-up.  That's not a good comparison.

Oh and he was bigger and his arm was stronger too.  Their on field performance isn't that comparable except DURRR THEIR ARMS ARE STRONG BUT THEYRE BAD!11!!1!!1

It's fairly accurate. Unlike their arms

[OhioG]

I dont really think highly of Kizer

But Hue is equally if not more to blame

Hes the offensive genius who cant scheme his WRs open. He insists on players without the right skill sets adjusting to his system instead of trying to put the players in the best position to succeed.

I read an article that showed how the falcons offense/matt ryan regressed a little because the new OC is expecting Ryan to make more difficult throws as opposed to last year where Shanahan would scheme his WRs wide open making it easier on Ryan.

[buno67]

12 hours ago, Rod Johnson said:

It's a garbage comparison.  There's plenty of guys you can compare Kizer to that played a long time on the virtue of their arm strength.

Derek Anderson, Rex Grossman, Weeden, etc.

You chose to compare him to the biggest bust of all time that earned that title largely because he was fat and addicted drugs.  If he had Kizer's head he would have had a decent career, but he was a legendary screw-up.  That's not a good comparison.

Oh and he was bigger and his arm was stronger too.  Their on field performance isn't that comparable except DURRR THEIR ARMS ARE STRONG BUT THEYRE BAD!11!!1!!1

Yeah, Kizer might never be a franchise  guy but there is still hope for him but I dont think he is going to flame out like Manziel or Russell. Kizer is too smart. Kizer will atleast make a living being a great #3 QB or being a solid back up. He wont be a cancer guy in the locker room and will be smart enough to be a back up or be able to give the defense amazing looks during the week as the scout team guy. If he gets the right HC and OC around him he could be great for them. 

[DawgX]

Hue deserves more of the blame. Kizer has single-handedly likely cost us at least a couple of wins due to moronic decisions he's made, but Hue was the one who put him in that position. Hue is also the one who has made piss poor use of the clock and timeouts, and has made moronic challenges. There's been many games where the Browns had to abandon the run, but there's also been plenty of games like last week where he didn't need to abandon run, but did so anyway. He also made the decision to start Kizer right away when he's clearly shown that he's no where near ready. Although Kessler might be a limited QB, there's no doubt in my mind that he would have been the better option to start this season. I'm confident that we'd have won at least a couple of games with Kessler starting the entire season.

There were people calling for Hue's head a quarter of the way through the season. I wasn't ready to totally denounce him at that point, but I am now. No, he's not in an ideal situation due to the youth and inexperience of this team, but this team shouldn't be an 0-16 team. They aren't THAT bad. Teams like the 49ers, Jets, Colts, etc. aren't that much better than us, but they all have at least three wins. I wasn't expecting much from this season as I knew we were still early on in the rebuilding process. But I was still expecting at least a couple of wins. Instead, we're looking towards going winless. I really wanted Hue to succeed as I loved the hire at the time - as most of us did. But it seems like he's proven to be one of the many who are great coordinators, but awful head coaches. But it looks like we'll be stuck with him for another season. I doubt Dorsey will have much patience for him, though.

[Aztec Hammer]

Kizer is atrocious. Particularly at the most important things a QB needs to be good at. A clunky, unnatural, inaccurate, slow-processing and un-clutch 'Quarterback'.

That being said, Hue is 10x more deserving of blame than an overdrafted, late second round 21 year old QB forced to start as a rookie.

 

[Mastercheddaar]

13 hours ago, ohiogenius said:

I dont really think highly of Kizer

But Hue is equally if not more to blame

Hes the offensive genius who cant scheme his WRs open. He insists on players without the right skill sets adjusting to his system instead of trying to put the players in the best position to succeed.

I read an article that showed how the falcons offense/matt ryan regressed a little because the new OC is expecting Ryan to make more difficult throws as opposed to last year where Shanahan would scheme his WRs wide open making it easier on Ryan.

I like most of what you said. Hue Lue, however, should not be blamed for lack of depth at WR or Kessler being the most experienced QB on the team. For most of the year, our starting WRs were from other team's practice squads. Also Kizer is exactly what everyone thought he would be (again) a project. He has size and a strong arm. The kid would have needed to sit for a year or two before he learned how to play the pro game. He was rushed and now we have a rookie QB worth less than the 2nd rounder we spent for him. I said keep him on the team and see if he develops and learns from his mistakes. Holding a clipboard would do he some good. As for Hue Lue, if Cinci wants him, they can trade us for him. I would Lulz so hard if they gave us anything higher than a 3rd rounder for him. 

That is all

Mastercheddaar