NFL General - Steelers Forum

[warfelg]

This was posted today. 

[August4th]

 

[JPeezy55]

For as good as this team is at drafting and finding gems at WR. They are equally as awful with Corners. Obviously the jury is still out on Allen and Sutton. But man are there a lot of huge flops on this list.

2007- Gay 

2009- Keenan Lewis/Joe Burnett

2010- Crezdon Butler

2011- Curtis Brown/Cortez Allen

2012-  Terrence Frederick 

2013- Terry Hawthorne 

2014- Shaquille Richardson

2015- Golson/Doran Grant 

2016- Burns

2017- Allen/Sutton

 

[JPeezy55]

1 hour ago, warfelg said:

This was posted today. 

I honestly don't know if Shazier will ever play again. But I have major confidence he can do it. He seems to make extraordinary progress so far, which is great to see that he can stabilize himself and just be able to hopefully walk on his own again too.

[August4th]

2 minutes ago, JPeezy55 said:

For as good as this team is at drafting and finding gems at WR. They are equally as awful with Corners. Obviously the jury is still out on Allen and Sutton. But man are there a lot of huge flops on this list.

2007- Gay 

2009- Keenan Lewis/Joe Burnett

2010- Crezdon Butler

2011- Curtis Brown/Cortez Allen

2012-  Terrence Frederick 

2013- Terry Hawthorne 

2014- Shaquille Richardson

2015- Golson/Doran Grant 

2016- Burns

2017- Allen/Sutton

 

09-15 is a graveyard outside of 1.5 season of play between cortez and lewis .. that's 6 drafts.. yikes

[JLambert58]

1 hour ago, JPeezy55 said:

I honestly don't know if Shazier will ever play again. But I have major confidence he can do it. He seems to make extraordinary progress so far, which is great to see that he can stabilize himself and just be able to hopefully walk on his own again too.

I wouldn't bet that ANYONE could come back from such an injury, but if anyone can, I think it's Shazier.  Glad he's feeling confident about his recovery.  

[43M]

1 hour ago, JPeezy55 said:

For as good as this team is at drafting and finding gems at WR. They are equally as awful with Corners. Obviously the jury is still out on Allen and Sutton. But man are there a lot of huge flops on this list.

2007- Gay 

2009- Keenan Lewis/Joe Burnett

2010- Crezdon Butler

2011- Curtis Brown/Cortez Allen

2012-  Terrence Frederick

2013- Terry Hawthorne 

2014- Shaquille Richardson

2015- Golson/Doran Grant 

2016- Burns

2017- Allen/Sutton

 

While I agree in general, you have to look at the big picture.

First off, finding talent at CB is probably one of the harder positions to find quality talent at LEAGUE-WIDE.   

Secondly, most of those guys were late round guys.     Keenan Lewis, Curtis Brown, Senquez Golson, Burns and Sutton are the only 5 drafted in the first 3 rounds, and only one of them was drafted in the first two rounds.

Lewis was actually pretty good, then he left here and couldnt stay healthy.

Brown was a flat out bust.

Golson was a bust due to injuries.   No way of predicting that.

Burns....I honestly think 3 years from now, he will be viewed as a bust.    Too soon to say for sure.

Sutton....jury still out.

Bottom line....there is no denying the Steelers FO has failed to find talent in the secondary over the years, but they also havent put as many resources into it either as they have at other positions.   In fact, outside of the 2016 draft, we havent showed much interest in improving the secondary.         Then again, there are many many times when the better secondary players are picked before we are on the clock, especially in the first round.    Not making excuses for the FO, but there are alot of factors that you have to consider.

Honestly, I would say that, in recent years, we have failed harder at finding pass rushing OLBs.

I consider Jason Worlids a bust.   Most of his career sacks were "Gildongs"....i.e....alot of coverage sacks and sacks he got when he wasnt blocked.    I never thought he was more than average at best.....and for a 2nd rounder, thats a bust.

Jarvis was a huge bust.    No explanation needed.

Dupree definitely looking to be a bust.

Hoping Watt breaks the trend, but we have failed harder finding pass rushers IMO over the last 5-7 years.

 

[43M]

3 minutes ago, JLambert58 said:

I wouldn't bet that ANYONE could come back from such an injury, but if anyone can, I think it's Shazier.  Glad he's feeling confident about his recovery.  

If I were running the team, Id still be moving forward as if he never plays again. 

Even if he WANTS to play, it doesnt mean he should, or that teams are going to give him the opportunity.    

I think he needs to retire and enjoy being able to walk again.....maybe become a coach.  

[jebrick]

The Steelers switched the type of DBs they were looking for about 2009.  Gay was the last of the pure zone guys that LeBeau wanted.  THey they started looking at man-to-man Cbs.  That takes a change in the scouting and the coaching.  It also means they are looking for the same type of player most of the other teams are looking for.

 

Same with EDGE talent.  Gone are the days when the Steelers and maybe 5 other teams were looking at the tweeners.  Do any of you think that Joey Porter would go in the 3rd round today?  I do not give the Steelers a pass but what they have been able to do since 2000 is amazing.

[JPeezy55]

17 minutes ago, FourThreeMafia said:

While I agree in general, you have to look at the big picture.

First off, finding talent at CB is probably one of the harder positions to find quality talent at LEAGUE-WIDE.   

Secondly, most of those guys were late round guys.     Keenan Lewis, Curtis Brown, Senquez Golson, Burns and Sutton are the only 5 drafted in the first 3 rounds, and only one of them was drafted in the first two rounds.

Lewis was actually pretty good, then he left here and couldnt stay healthy.

Brown was a flat out bust.

Golson was a bust due to injuries.   No way of predicting that.

Burns....I honestly think 3 years from now, he will be viewed as a bust.    Too soon to say for sure.

Sutton....jury still out.

Bottom line....there is no denying the Steelers FO has failed to find talent in the secondary over the years, but they also havent put as many resources into it either as they have at other positions.   In fact, outside of the 2016 draft, we havent showed much interest in improving the secondary.         Then again, there are many many times when the better secondary players are picked before we are on the clock, especially in the first round.    Not making excuses for the FO, but there are alot of factors that you have to consider.

Honestly, I would say that, in recent years, we have failed harder at finding pass rushing OLBs.

I consider Jason Worlids a bust.   Most of his career sacks were "Gildongs"....i.e....alot of coverage sacks and sacks he got when he wasnt blocked.    I never thought he was more than average at best.....and for a 2nd rounder, thats a bust.

Jarvis was a huge bust.    No explanation needed.

Dupree definitely looking to be a bust.

Hoping Watt breaks the trend, but we have failed harder finding pass rushers IMO over the last 5-7 years.

 

I agree with all of that, but the major difference is, the Steelers have attempted to upgrade the edge position in the Top 1-3 rounds with all of those picks. While Golson being the first Corner selected in the 1st 2 rounds, since Chad Scott? (Don't have the ability to research that currently) but for sure Burns the first #1 pick since Scott. What I'm getting at is that over that time the Steelers didn't invest high round picks into the Corner position, consistently trying to find mid-late round guys as stop gaps, diamonds in the rough with no luck.

However, Worlds, Jarvis, Dupree and Watt have all been picks in the Top 3 rounds.

I think overall the Steelers have put Secondary on the back burner for many years, especially those 09-15 years where there just mid round guys after mid round guys dumped into the organization, all but maybe 1 falling flat on their face. 

[JLambert58]

53 minutes ago, FourThreeMafia said:

If I were running the team, Id still be moving forward as if he never plays again. 

Even if he WANTS to play, it doesnt mean he should, or that teams are going to give him the opportunity.    

I think he needs to retire and enjoy being able to walk again.....maybe become a coach.  

Sure, you can't plan for it, but if he were to make it back physically, I think he deserves a chance to try and play again.  And I think the Steelers would give him that chance. 

[43M]

1 hour ago, JLambert58 said:

Sure, you can't plan for it, but if he were to make it back physically, I think he deserves a chance to try and play again.  And I think the Steelers would give him that chance. 

True, but I just hope he decides to retire. I'd be holding my breath every time he went to make a tackle.

[43M]

2 hours ago, JPeezy55 said:

I agree with all of that, but the major difference is, the Steelers have attempted to upgrade the edge position in the Top 1-3 rounds with all of those picks. While Golson being the first Corner selected in the 1st 2 rounds, since Chad Scott? (Don't have the ability to research that currently) but for sure Burns the first #1 pick since Scott. What I'm getting at is that over that time the Steelers didn't invest high round picks into the Corner position, consistently trying to find mid-late round guys as stop gaps, diamonds in the rough with no luck.

However, Worlds, Jarvis, Dupree and Watt have all been picks in the Top 3 rounds.

I think overall the Steelers have put Secondary on the back burner for many years, especially those 09-15 years where there just mid round guys after mid round guys dumped into the organization, all but maybe 1 falling flat on their face. 

Well, that was pretty much my point. The failures in the secondary largely stem from lack of TRYING to fix it, while the failures at OLB stem from poor scouting and draft decisions.

[August4th]

can see shazier situation ending up like chris bosh from the NBA where every team was afraid to sign him due to his illness

with NFL's PR already down the drain and that new rule with tackling with the helmets just can't see the NFL risking shazier getting hurt again .. I think his story to get on the field will end with a failed physical

[Blitzburgh]

4 hours ago, FourThreeMafia said:

True, but I just hope he decides to retire. I'd be holding my breath every time he went to make a tackle.

I can’t imagine he will ever be able to mentally play with the same reckless abandonment as he did before.  I think that will take away his edge as a player.