turtle28 Posted December 25, 2017 Share Posted December 25, 2017 20 hours ago, Doc Draper said: We need to stop making excuses. I do it too weve had injuries, but so what, every team has injuries every year and some have been worse than ours. Kirks our mvp and been healthy all year. The thing that bothers me is when our “great starters” get injured a lot of time the backups did better. Nscheke not starting on our line last year is coaching malpractice. Failure to adapt leads to extinction -Darwin doctson to date is a bust. Can he have it all click and suddenly become a legitimate number 1? Probably not. He was targeted a dozen times by Kirk and ended up with 2 catches. About 80% of Kirk’s I completes we’re to him. If I’m a qb he doesn’t see another ball or at best is my last option Actually most teams haven’t had as many injuries as us and the teams who avoid a lot of major injuries are usually the ones who have the best season. Nsekhe was hurt for 2/3 of the season too and he hasn’t been good anywhere but LT so far. What back ups have been better than those infront of them? I guess maybe Perine over Kelly but they’re basically equal and Kelly was more reliable as a pass blocker. I can agree with the frustration with Doctson but I do think that he’ll get another 5 targets next week. They have to try to develop him, there is #1 talent there. Doctson gets himself open and is in position to make almost every play. He just needs to focus more and finish. Let’s see what he does next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeezy Fanatic Posted December 25, 2017 Share Posted December 25, 2017 4 out of 10 for me at this moment. Needs to be better, especially catching the ball, but he’s flashed enough skills and had enough production I’m not ready to trash him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vladimir L Posted December 25, 2017 Share Posted December 25, 2017 Docson gets thrown 50/50 balls so of course he is going to drop some. He has been ok for a rookie and has shown potential. He always gets big pass interfearance penalties if you added those up hed be having a 600 yard season. Yes I consider him a rookie, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted December 25, 2017 Share Posted December 25, 2017 5 hours ago, Vladimir L said: Docson gets thrown 50/50 balls so of course he is going to drop some. He has been ok for a rookie and has shown potential. He always gets big pass interfearance penalties if you added those up hed be having a 600 yard season. Yes I consider him a rookie, He dropped another TD pass yesterday and it wasn’t a 50/50 ball. It’s not always 50/50 balls he drops. My problem is he does such an amazing job of out leaping defenders to get both hands on almost every ball that the defender doesn’t interfer with him but then he drops them when he gets in position to catch them. It’s frustrating. To me the pass is a 50/50 ball, the description is from the Qb perspective because he’s basically throwing the ball up for grabs but when the WR gets both hands on it they should catch it, NO EXCUSES. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavar703 Posted December 25, 2017 Share Posted December 25, 2017 Gruden wouldn't put him out on the field for the first five weeks or so hoping Pryor would come around. He's had some bad drops but some posters expect him to make one-handed grabs and every ill advised pass thrown his way should be a catch or he's a bust. Whatever. He's essentially a rookie and most rookie receivers take time to get it right. He's made some outstanding catches this year and has 6 TD catches. And saying he doesn't run solid routes or he can't beat defenders is disingenuous considering he's been open several times where Kirk simply under or overthrew him. I mean just yesterday he put a beautiful move on the DB, got wide open and Kirk underthrew him. Not to mention, Doc then blamed Doctson for not highpointing a ball that was woefully underthrown all the while calling the pass "beautiful". All I'm asking is that you guys give him the same leash you gave Kirk. The same guys who made excuses for Kirk while he was tossing interceptions every other pass are beating up on Doctson. You saw what happened with Kirk when we stuck with him. So give him a chance to develop instead of simply throwing the baby out with the bath water. Is he going to be a great receiver? I don't know? But he's shown enough this year to make me believe he had outstanding ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted December 25, 2017 Share Posted December 25, 2017 4 hours ago, lavar703 said: Gruden wouldn't put him out on the field for the first five weeks or so hoping Pryor would come around. He's had some bad drops but some posters expect him to make one-handed grabs and every ill advised pass thrown his way should be a catch or he's a bust. Whatever. He's essentially a rookie and most rookie receivers take time to get it right. He's made some outstanding catches this year and has 6 TD catches. And saying he doesn't run solid routes or he can't beat defenders is disingenuous considering he's been open several times where Kirk simply under or overthrew him. I mean just yesterday he put a beautiful move on the DB, got wide open and Kirk underthrew him. Not to mention, Doc then blamed Doctson for not highpointing a ball that was woefully underthrown all the while calling the pass "beautiful". All I'm asking is that you guys give him the same leash you gave Kirk. The same guys who made excuses for Kirk while he was tossing interceptions every other pass are beating up on Doctson. You saw what happened with Kirk when we stuck with him. So give him a chance to develop instead of simply throwing the baby out with the bath water. Is he going to be a great receiver? I don't know? But he's shown enough this year to make me believe he had outstanding ability. Oh, don’t get me wrong, my leash is plenty long for Doctson. My leash is long for all young players in their first two seasons and I too consider this year his rookie season. Still though, constructive criticism is part of the game. He’s done well for a rookie wr but he still needs to finsish plays better. At the same time though, I expect him too. I 100% agree that Kirk has missed him a several times this season, probably once in every game but also, Doctson has dropped 4 more passes that should I have been TDs which he had both hands on and probably 4 or 5 other easier passes. He needs to make those plays. That’s just the brutal truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A TRAIN 89 Posted December 26, 2017 Share Posted December 26, 2017 What should really scare folks is that Josh Doctson is already 25. 2018 could be a career-defining year for ol' Doctsy...and if Kirk is not here to help move him along, then we are in for an avalanche of "BUST!" rage from fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dashing202 Posted December 26, 2017 Share Posted December 26, 2017 Doctson not a bust yet he wasn't a full time starter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeezy Fanatic Posted December 26, 2017 Share Posted December 26, 2017 The thing is, Terrell Owens had awful hands, but still ended up being a dominant, big receiver. Let's see how Doctson develops. If he continues to learn how to use his body better against NFL defenders I think he'll be an asset. I don't think he'll ever be a TO or even Anquan Boldin, but I think he could be a consistent 800 yards 8 TD a year type of guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted December 26, 2017 Share Posted December 26, 2017 7 hours ago, Jeezy Fanatic said: The thing is, Terrell Owens had awful hands, but still ended up being a dominant, big receiver. Let's see how Doctson develops. If he continues to learn how to use his body better against NFL defenders I think he'll be an asset. I don't think he'll ever be a TO or even Anquan Boldin, but I think he could be a consistent 800 yards 8 TD a year type of guy. T.O. took years to develop and he learned from the best WR in history - Jerry Rice. Doctson already has better hands than TO. Doctson is a natural hands catcher. Doctson’s problem isn’t his hands, it’s that he’s losing his concentration. Perhaps he doesn’t get better and never becomes a guy who makes every catch - even the extremely difficult ones - but I have a hard time believing he won’t improve, he’s a much more natural hand catcher than T.O. Doctson is basically a 800 yd & 8 TD guy as a rookie because he spent the first half of this season splitting reps with Pryor which took targets away from him and through out the season I’d say Kirk missed him on at least 5 possible big plays. That being said there’s no reason why he shouldn’t have 40 recs, 600 yards and 10 TDs despite being a part time WR half of the year and Kirk missing him at least 5 times this year when he was open. The reason he has only 6 TDs instead of 10 is some of his own doing, either he’s dropped a possible TD pass or fallen down on a route. He’s going to get better and as long as he has a good qb next year he should be a 1,000 yard wr with at least 8 TDs, if not more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted December 26, 2017 Share Posted December 26, 2017 Doctson had 13 targets on Sunday but only 2 receptions. Obviously not all his fault, but a few definitely were. The bottom line is that Doctson & Kirk must get on the same page next offseason IF Kirk is back! The plays are there to be made, and Doctson and Kirk have to make them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaiphoon Posted December 26, 2017 Share Posted December 26, 2017 22 hours ago, lavar703 said: Gruden wouldn't put him out on the field for the first five weeks or so hoping Pryor would come around. He's had some bad drops but some posters expect him to make one-handed grabs and every ill advised pass thrown his way should be a catch or he's a bust. Whatever. He's essentially a rookie and most rookie receivers take time to get it right. He's made some outstanding catches this year and has 6 TD catches. And saying he doesn't run solid routes or he can't beat defenders is disingenuous considering he's been open several times where Kirk simply under or overthrew him. I mean just yesterday he put a beautiful move on the DB, got wide open and Kirk underthrew him. Not to mention, Doc then blamed Doctson for not highpointing a ball that was woefully underthrown all the while calling the pass "beautiful". All I'm asking is that you guys give him the same leash you gave Kirk. The same guys who made excuses for Kirk while he was tossing interceptions every other pass are beating up on Doctson. You saw what happened with Kirk when we stuck with him. So give him a chance to develop instead of simply throwing the baby out with the bath water. Is he going to be a great receiver? I don't know? But he's shown enough this year to make me believe he had outstanding ability. Like Turtle, my leash is moderately long. We have him for 2 or 3 more seasons. But if he doesn't improve in the next season as a starter, I'm going to seriously re-evaluate if I want to resign him at the end of his contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavar703 Posted December 26, 2017 Share Posted December 26, 2017 1 hour ago, Thaiphoon said: Like Turtle, my leash is moderately long. We have him for 2 or 3 more seasons. But if he doesn't improve in the next season as a starter, I'm going to seriously re-evaluate if I want to resign him at the end of his contract. And I completely agree with that. I just want to see him get a full season as a starter with (hopefully) an off-season of work with Kirk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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