The dissonance of defensive backs

[Alex]

I know I don't usually post much but I figured with our defense creating its identity, I thought I'd cover the front 7 before I start talking about the defensive backs.

I know people aren't impressed with our front 7, it's a really young squad and I do like the bright future.

Hargraves will be a beast, he won't be the pro bowler you would like him to see becoming, but he will be stout up the middle like Joel Steed was. I have noticed his performance, he's really good on the passing downs and behind the line of scrimmage, just got to work on clogging the lanes.

Stephen Tuitt and Cameron Heyward both are easily our favorite defensive players aside from maybe Shazier, they will lock down the edges for next 5-10 years. I really love their versatility, I strongly feel like because of their presences we are able to switch and mix up the schemes because they both are interchangeable. It's a thing of beauty.

Ryan Shazier before the injury was the guy we would stubs as the next Joker role, arguably played better than Timmons ever did. I'm not holding my breath but I have a feeling he will be back, players like him usually beat the odds. 

Our 3 defensive linemen are the reason Vince Williams has been pass rushing exceptionally well. His number speaks the volume. His run support has been disappointing, however, his coverage has been a surprise as well, you can't complain for the size and player that Vince is, I think he will be our Larry Foote for years to come. Vocal and reliable linebacker.

TJ Watt, just wow... He's performing really well and doing exactly what you would like to see from our OLBs, I know people are down on Bud Dupree- I am not though, I think he's playing better than given credits for. His coverage ability has been displayed, I think some miscommunication affected him and aside from playing with one pass-rushing move (I do see him improving in this area), it's hard to be the pass rusher you intend to be if you are dropping back a lot. Same with Watt.

NOW, the defensive backs.

Last year we thought Artie Burn and Sean Davis were going to be better players. I still think they will but the issues came with two things: The Joe Haden signing. I love the signing, trust me I do, I know Joe Haden will be a big-time contributor during the playoff. Problem is, Burn and Haden have two entirely different strengths and Butler is forced to play to them each individually especially between the drives and it showed. (Probably explain the inconsistency from drive to drive, as we would dominate one drive and blew others) Last year when Burn had consecutive games of interceptions, it is very important to note it was the same streak where Mitchell was playing much better. This year? Not so much.

Mickey Mouse Hilton, just wow, dude is a flat-out baller but like every year I feel like one of those rookies will hit the slump a year after for some reason. I just hope it's not Hilton as he's our best nickel cornerback on the roster. Cam Sutton, flashed some potentials and think he will have more PT next season. 

Another issue- clearly, Mike Mitchell. Dude got to go. People bashed Sean Davis too but after watching the game again few times from some games; Sean Davis looked like a guy who overthinks everything and he's clearly looking back at Mitchell every time pre-snap. If you have your strong safety hesitate because of the free safety, you know where the real problem is. Sean will be a good stop-gap. Mitchell however, has to go and wouldn't be surprised to see him get released. So, now we have two issues:

variety of strengths and weaknesses from our cornerbacks and safeties, aside from Mitchell. If we do let Mitchell go- here's the question.

Which position do you focus on first? Fix the scheme? functioning of the performance and roles?

Safeties- We could switch to Cover-2, which mean we look for a strictly Cover-2 safety. We also can find another enforcer who wouldn't be a second too late for everything. Perhaps, it's time to give a "rover" role a serious look. Looking into the pool of free agents and draft prospects, it is looking like our best bet is probably a free agent and early pick. Somebody like Cody Davis from Los Angeles Rams came to mind, I definitely think he got the looks we need, he's a rover who is actually decent at tackling, he's just not an enforcer. Justin Reid from Stanford (likely in 1st round) would be a good cover-2 safety or Terrell Edmunds from Virginia Tech (Likely round 2) has highest potentials or DeShon Elliott from Texas (Likely Round 3) who is the most pro-ready or Jordan Whitehead from Pittsburgh (Likely Round 2 as well) is one of the most instinctive, defensive player. The safety position is seemingly the easiest position to fix with an immediate starter and a prospect too.

Cornerbacks- As much I like switching from different roles for the cornerback- I'd still rather stick just two out of three rather than expecting our cornerbacks to play all three factors (Man on Man/Zone/Press) Joe Haden signed for 3 years and can see him playing beyond 3 years, he's a press man who can also play zone pretty well. I like Artie Burn but doesn't see the fit here. I'm hoping we do keep him but can see where a trade would benefit us and him. For example, Artie Burn to the Bears for their 2nd round pick and another late pick, likely we will swap late picks as well as Burn fits their scheme much better and this can allow us to load our picks with right players and fits. I like Cam Sutton, while he's not physically imposing like Joe Haden I can see him handling it just fine. He's an intelligent football player, then we have Mickey Mouse Hilton too and not to forget to mention, Willie Gay. No reason to pursue the free agents for the cornerback position, however, we need to ensure the cornerback is a right fit too. Players like Ken Webster from Ole Miss, Joshua Jackson from Iowa, Tarvarus McFadden from Florida State, etc (They aren't my favorite, just to name the few who fits the profile) could help us develop a better identity for the defensive backs. While this may be a stretch, however, it will be better for a longer run, easier to scheme around the defense when you don't have to look back, again and again, worried you are going to blow anything. 

Sorry for the long post! 

If you were the GM, what would you do? Focus on the free safety or the cornerback position?

I am well-aware it is likely our early picks may be totaled with offensive players, still it's worth to discuss about!

Thoughts?

[Livewire]

Good topic Alex.

I would definitely focus on the safety position. Even though Burns has not taken that next step he's still a first rounder who can grow into becoming a solid contributor. It's concerning that he is tied for the league lead in penalties by a CB this season. Haden has been a terrific addition and the numbers show how much he means to the team. With him in the lineup the team is giving up 182 yards compare to giving up 252 yards when he isn't in the lineup. Plus you have Cameron Sutton who might actually start tomorrow. I do think they will draft a CB next season but I don't find it to be a top priority.

At safety Davis has been a disappointment. Like Burns, I was hoping he would progress this season but he hasn't. Covering Gronk isn't easy at all and the coaches deserve a lot of blame there but there's been other issues with him as well like being a poor tackler. I'm tired of seeing him just put a shoulder into someone. A few times this year it's led to a miss tackle and a big gain. I will be ecstatic when Mike Mitchell is finally out of here. It will be a great day just like when Willie Colon finally left. I admit I thought he would be a good addition coming off a good year in Carolina but he's been terrible. He doesn't provide any big plays at all. Dropped an interception in the game against the Bears which proved costly. Talks a lot and doesn't back it up. Too many times he's coming in late covering a player. Celebrates tackling a player after a 15 yard gain. Give me a break. Also the Steelers backups are abysmal. Golden is lucky he is on the team and Wilcox hasn't been on the field much.

I do feel, and this has been mentioned before on here by others, that Carnell Lake really hasn't done a good job of developing any DBs. Haden was already a Pro Bowl CB so he didn't really need any coaching but when the team goes secondary 1 and 2 in the draft two years ago he needs to bring out the best in them. We haven't seen that. While Burns showed flashes last year he has been very inconsistent this year just like Davis. I don't think it's time to give up on Davis just yet because I wonder how he would be with a different coach. What DB has Lake molded? No one. I would like to see a change in coaching for the secondary.

[JLambert58]

TLDR - Ok I read some of it.  

I think we should be considering drafting in this order of importance:  ILB, OLB, RB, TE, (McD has not proven to be reliable)  S, WR, 

I wouldn't consider CB a huge need at this point.  With Burns, Haden, Hilton & Sutton, we have a solid core for next year.  

Steelers dropped the ball on the Conner & Dobbs picks.  I like Conner, but I'm not sure he's going to be special, ditto Dobbs.  Imagine Carl Lawson & George Kittle instead.  (then we would still have a 4th rd pick for next year)

[3rivers]

17 hours ago, JLambert58 said:

TLDR - Ok I read some of it.  

I think we should be considering drafting in this order of importance:  ILB, OLB, RB, TE, (McD has not proven to be reliable)  S, WR, 

I wouldn't consider CB a huge need at this point.  With Burns, Haden, Hilton & Sutton, we have a solid core for next year.  

Steelers dropped the ball on the Conner & Dobbs picks.  I like Conner, but I'm not sure he's going to be special, ditto Dobbs.  Imagine Carl Lawson & George Kittle instead.  (then we would still have a 4th rd pick for next year)

Yeah. Lawson was there in RD for us or even if we traded in RD4, just a steal in those rounds IMO . I was mocking RD1 or 2 for us taking Lawson. He got mentioned more in this thread than our former RD1 pick 

Mitchell has proven that he should be gone, or at least a back up and with his cap , he will be gone or should be.

OUir CB's , they need another season before I can seriously be the fan that decides their fate. As of now Haden is here for sure and Burns will get another season. Sutton needs more playing time and we all like Hilton no doubt even he just blitzes it could be the 31 Defence 

Hargrave is not Joel Steed though as Steed was a top of the league run stopper . Hargrave appears more suited for attacking scheme and can also play on passing downs, Steed OTOH was a 2 gap NT back when the league was more predictable and usually ran on first and second  downs. Our run D was lousy today again, but Hargrave isn't the only one that can accept blame.

Shazier, I don't expect him back and that is a loss of a player that has rare ability. 

Davis has played well at times, and remember that Gronk usually beats whoever he lines up against. 

These types of FO moves are the moves forum fans  typically are interested in. What they don't often face is possibly losing the franchise HOF QB and what appears to be a HOF RB with excellent receiving skills. If we lost both Ben and Bell,  that would be the priority IMO, finding replacements. Connor appeared to be a good RB in limited playing time but the MCL injury might change his playing.  What UFA's are available to replace Ben if he retires and if Bell signs to another team?