RuskieTitan Posted October 10 Share Posted October 10 Great change by the Jets. I can see this revitalizing the locker room and helping them turn things around to win the division and make the playoffs. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYJets4716 Posted October 10 Share Posted October 10 1 hour ago, Jakuvious said: I don't think it's definitive, necessarily, but literally every year Downing has been in charge of an NFL offense, said offense has been worse than it was the prior season. He's had two solid stints as QB coach with Stafford and Carr, and basically the entire rest of his 20+ year NFL career has been unsuccessful. Every year after he leaves the offense remains just as bad. So, was it necessarily him or has he been put in bad situations? Hes only be OC for 3 seasons. The Titans overall regressed in terms of talent. Ryan Tannehill started to regress as a player and now is no longer employed. The 2022 Titans offense looks pretty mediocre in terms of talent. The Titans haven't improved their offense since. Its been the same level offense every season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaguarCrazy2832 Posted October 10 Share Posted October 10 5 hours ago, Forge said: Doubt it helps. They don't run a lot of play action, don't run a ton of motion and I think each of those has more to do with who their QB is Why dont more teams do those 2 things? It seems like they both add so much value to the offense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G Posted October 10 Share Posted October 10 5 hours ago, NYJets4716 said: What were his specific issues with the Raiders? So why is Downing definitely a worse coach than Hackett? I don't remember specifics but he was our QB coach with Carr and Musgrave our OC (20016 I think) and the offense was really good. Musgrave's contract was up but we were afraid of losing Downing to another team for OC, so we promoted him and the offense fell apart.(2017) Carr was his biggest supporter and I think we canned everyone and hired Gruden. Carr got injured at the end of 2016 and missed the playoffs and was never the same and the kneeling thing happened and Washington smacked us in the mouth and the team never recovered. Some thought a few guys were letting pass rushers hit Carr because he didn't support the kneeling. So it could be many factors but I think if he's an upgrade over Hackett it's only because he's a different guy listening to Aaron. Aaron might do great but it won't be because of the OC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYJets4716 Posted October 10 Share Posted October 10 4 minutes ago, G said: I don't remember specifics but he was our QB coach with Carr and Musgrave our OC (20016 I think) and the offense was really good. Musgrave's contract was up but we were afraid of losing Downing to another team for OC, so we promoted him and the offense fell apart.(2017) Carr was his biggest supporter and I think we canned everyone and hired Gruden. Carr got injured at the end of 2016 and missed the playoffs and was never the same and the kneeling thing happened and Washington smacked us in the mouth and the team never recovered. Some thought a few guys were letting pass rushers hit Carr because he didn't support the kneeling. So it could be many factors but I think if he's an upgrade over Hackett it's only because he's a different guy listening to Aaron. Aaron might do great but it won't be because of the OC. I mean Hackett is the worst OC in the league by a mile. So sticking with him would have been insane. The Jets tried to hire Arthur Smith but he took the Steelers job. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted October 10 Share Posted October 10 1 hour ago, NYJets4716 said: Every year after he leaves the offense remains just as bad. So, was it necessarily him or has he been put in bad situations? Hes only be OC for 3 seasons. The Titans overall regressed in terms of talent. Ryan Tannehill started to regress as a player and now is no longer employed. The 2022 Titans offense looks pretty mediocre in terms of talent. The Titans haven't improved their offense since. Its been the same level offense every season. Not really. For the Titans, he inherited a juggernaut, and the Titans were third in total offense in the league before he took over. Then in his first year they went 12-4 in the regular season, but were middling in offense (17th in total yards). The next year they dropped to 30th. After he was fired, despite the team depending on old players that were all a year older (Tannehill, Henry, and Hopkins) than they were in his tenure, the offense climbed to 28th. So yeah, the offense was still bad, but the wheels fell off by then, and the Titans literally went from the top of the league to the bottom under him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StatKing Posted October 10 Share Posted October 10 8 hours ago, Forge said: Doubt it helps. They don't run a lot of play action, don't run a ton of motion and I think each of those has more to do with who their QB is It's hard to use play action when you can't run the ball effectively. 70% of the Jets offensive issues could be solved by starting Allen instead of Hall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted October 10 Share Posted October 10 1 minute ago, StatKing said: It's hard to use play action when you can't run the ball effectively. 70% of the Jets offensive issues could be solved by starting Allen instead of Hall. I'm pretty sure that findings have suggested that how well you run the ball has no bearing on how effective your play action is. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StatKing Posted October 10 Share Posted October 10 Just now, Forge said: I'm pretty sure that findings have suggested that how well you run the ball has no bearing on how effective your play action is. I want whatever that person is smoking who said that. The whole point of play action is to draw the safeties and linebackers down with the threat of a run. If you have no running threat then they have no reason to drop out of their two high coverage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted October 10 Share Posted October 10 3 hours ago, JaguarCrazy2832 said: Why dont more teams do those 2 things? It seems like they both add so much value to the offense The play action could be a byproduct of your QB. Some aren't comfortable with it. They may not like turning their back to the defense, may not like taking as many snaps from under center (obviously you can have play action out of shotgun, but I'd be curious to know its effectiveness versus under center turn your back PA). Have no idea why more teams don't use motion. For the Jets, I know that Rodgers has expressed displeasure in the past about both motion and play action. I believe in Green Bay he said something about it taking control away from him at the line or something or other. So I think for the Jets specifically, this is a Rodgers thing 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted October 10 Share Posted October 10 1 hour ago, StatKing said: I want whatever that person is smoking who said that. The whole point of play action is to draw the safeties and linebackers down with the threat of a run. If you have no running threat then they have no reason to drop out of their two high coverage. The numbers work out the way they work out. Its not like it's one study, either. It's pretty interesting reading on some of them. The article Ted Nguyen wrote on it covered like 7 years worth of data, I think. The studies tend to just show the data all over the place, I'm pretty sure, which suggests that there's no correlation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StatKing Posted October 10 Share Posted October 10 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Forge said: The play action could be a byproduct of your QB. Some aren't comfortable with it. They may not like turning their back to the defense, may not like taking as many snaps from under center (obviously you can have play action out of shotgun, but I'd be curious to know its effectiveness versus under center turn your back PA). Have no idea why more teams don't use motion. For the Jets, I know that Rodgers has expressed displeasure in the past about both motion and play action. I believe in Green Bay he said something about it taking control away from him at the line or something or other. So I think for the Jets specifically, this is a Rodgers thing Some teams don't like using a lot of motion because it condenses the throwing windows and it can make things more confusing post snap for a QB. Edited October 10 by StatKing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted October 10 Share Posted October 10 Just now, StatKing said: Some teams don't like using a lot of motion because it condenses the throwing windows and it can make things more confusing post snap for a QB. The bolded definitely tracks. I could see that for sure. Hadn't thought about condensing throwing windows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted October 10 Share Posted October 10 Will Downing call the plays where Rodgers doesn't throw the ball to the other team? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakuvious Posted October 11 Share Posted October 11 4 hours ago, NYJets4716 said: Every year after he leaves the offense remains just as bad. So, was it necessarily him or has he been put in bad situations? Hes only be OC for 3 seasons. The Titans overall regressed in terms of talent. Ryan Tannehill started to regress as a player and now is no longer employed. The 2022 Titans offense looks pretty mediocre in terms of talent. The Titans haven't improved their offense since. Its been the same level offense every season. Your logic just doesn't track here. The offenses were good when he arrived. They were bad when he left. That isn't the team putting him in a bad situation, that's him making a mess of the situation he was given. That teams weren't able to immediately recover, or that they didn't hire someone good after him, does not mean he was not at fault for the decline he oversaw. Regardless, this is, at best, you just making excuses for him. There's no argument for him being good. The best you can do is say, maybe it wasn't his fault and he's not actually total crap. The nature of argument kind of proves the quality of the guy, to be honest. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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