Fatgerman Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017 1 hour ago, mistakey said: the last time we had back to back 1st round picks was in 99 and 00 and they STILL combined for 5 wins in those two seasons. **** even if you consider the record of the 98 (non existent) and 99 browns, they still won 2 games does this team have less talent than a hastily put together expansion team? thats a pretty easy NO Sad thing is: to me, this is the most talented roster we have had. Theyre just young. But you can see it; theyre hungry. You wanna know if a team has quit, check the rushing stats. Run defense boils down to effort, will, and fight. Even now, 0 and 14-15, weve still been playing hard-nose, good run-D. When Hue remembers he is allowed to call run plays, weve had success moving men off the ball and getting yards. This young roster deserves a real QB and a real leader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruceb Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017 8 minutes ago, Fatgerman said: This young roster deserves a real QB and a real leader. Yes, and not the Cueball cheerleader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted December 28, 2017 Author Share Posted December 28, 2017 1 hour ago, mistakey said: the last time we had back to back 1st round picks was in 99 and 00 and they STILL combined for 5 wins in those two seasons. **** even if you consider the record of the 98 (non existent) and 99 browns, they still won 2 games does this team have less talent than a hastily put together expansion team? thats a pretty easy NO Yeah I think to be 1-30 it has to be a combination of things. Coaching, talent, luck or lack thereof. Offense this year is the biggest issue, passing specifically. Last year it was all elements. Chris Palmer seemed like a terrible coach but it's unlikely we would be winless if he were coaching. The '99 team was really bad. There were rookies, outcasts and players who couldn't make any other teams roster starting. This team is full of competent veterans and a lot of high draft picks. There is no reason we should be at less than 4 wins. But, here we are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017 7 hours ago, Thomas5737 said: Yeah I think to be 1-30 it has to be a combination of things. Coaching, talent, luck or lack thereof. Offense this year is the biggest issue, passing specifically. Last year it was all elements. Chris Palmer seemed like a terrible coach but it's unlikely we would be winless if he were coaching. The '99 team was really bad. There were rookies, outcasts and players who couldn't make any other teams roster starting. This team is full of competent veterans and a lot of high draft picks. There is no reason we should be at less than 4 wins. But, here we are. It's been the schemes IMO. Hue has insisted that his players will run his system without an bit of tailoring to fit the players skill set and abilities. Refusing to run the ball and running slew of vertical routes to nobody receivers with a rookie qb is unforgivable. Kizer hasn't been good, but he's been set up to fail from the beginning. How many run plays were called after the half against Chicago when it was snowing, windy and cold? It's been unreal. Williams has improved the run D and the defense has improved to the eye even if the stats don't always reflect it, but the absurdity of playing a FS 25 yards back and giving teams 10-12 yard cushions with your corners, especially in 3rd and 5ish type, situations, makes my head hurt. A good coach gets 4-5 wins with this team IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted December 28, 2017 Author Share Posted December 28, 2017 48 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: It's been the schemes IMO. Hue has insisted that his players will run his system without an bit of tailoring to fit the players skill set and abilities. Refusing to run the ball and running slew of vertical routes to nobody receivers with a rookie qb is unforgivable. Kizer hasn't been good, but he's been set up to fail from the beginning. How many run plays were called after the half against Chicago when it was snowing, windy and cold? It's been unreal. Williams has improved the run D and the defense has improved to the eye even if the stats don't always reflect it, but the absurdity of playing a FS 25 yards back and giving teams 10-12 yard cushions with your corners, especially in 3rd and 5ish type, situations, makes my head hurt. A good coach gets 4-5 wins with this team IMO. I agree with all of that. I'm not sure Kizer would have succeeded as a rookie either way though. No matter what passes he would be attempting the defense would have got the better of him because he doesn't progress through routes and he throws into coverage and he lacks consistent accuracy, a terrible combination. Kizer could have been statistically better but he really wouldn't have looked all that much better I don't think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017 6 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said: I agree with all of that. I'm not sure Kizer would have succeeded as a rookie either way though. No matter what passes he would be attempting the defense would have got the better of him because he doesn't progress through routes and he throws into coverage and he lacks consistent accuracy, a terrible combination. Kizer could have been statistically better but he really wouldn't have looked all that much better I don't think. I think the better idea would have been a bit more of a college spread offense with quick, easy reads and easier throws. Also leaning on the run game more, a lot more. Kizer should have been put in a position where he would just have not make a few plays and not lose the game as opposed to be expected to go out and win it with his arm. I agree he's not ready to play, but Hue doubled down on the stupidity with the gameplan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathouse Sticks Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017 8 hours ago, Thomas5737 said: Yeah I think to be 1-30 it has to be a combination of things. Coaching, talent, luck or lack thereof. Offense this year is the biggest issue, passing specifically. Last year it was all elements. Chris Palmer seemed like a terrible coach but it's unlikely we would be winless if he were coaching. The '99 team was really bad. There were rookies, outcasts and players who couldn't make any other teams roster starting. This team is full of competent veterans and a lot of high draft picks. There is no reason we should be at less than 4 wins. But, here we are. You've got to have that quarterback. It used to be, I wasn't so sure about that. I used to say, well, Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl, blah, blah, blah. But the older I get, the more I'm convinced of it. You've gotta have that QB. If Kizer had shown any signs of competence, when it counted, and could have protected the ball and made smart decisions, I think you have your four wins. What competent veterans are you talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted December 28, 2017 Author Share Posted December 28, 2017 1 minute ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: I think the better idea would have been a bit more of a college spread offense with quick, easy reads and easier throws. Also leaning on the run game more, a lot more. Kizer should have been put in a position where he would just have not make a few plays and not lose the game as opposed to be expected to go out and win it with his arm. I agree he's not ready to play, but Hue doubled down on the stupidity with the gameplan. Yeah I agree. There were a couple games where if we would have run 90% of the time we would have had a realistic chance to win. Our biggest weakness as a team is throwing the football and that is how we tried to win games, just dumb. I think we would have been best served as a power run offense and Kizer taking some playaction shots down the field at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted December 28, 2017 Author Share Posted December 28, 2017 2 minutes ago, Kathouse Sticks said: You've got to have that quarterback. It used to be, I wasn't so sure about that. I used to say, well, Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl, blah, blah, blah. But the older I get, the more I'm convinced of it. You've gotta have that QB. If Kizer had shown any signs of competence, when it counted, and could have protected the ball and made smart decisions, I think you have your four wins. What competent veterans are you talking about? The offensive line, Gordon, Coleman, Crowell, Duke, Ogbah, Kirksey, Collins, McCourty, Shelton, Shobert, BBC... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathouse Sticks Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017 5 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said: The offensive line, Gordon, Coleman, Crowell, Duke, Ogbah, Kirksey, Collins, McCourty, Shelton, Shobert, BBC... Okay. I can dig it. Man, do we need that QB. And you know what? I personally like Kizer. I think he wants to win. I think he is a great kid in the community. Great teammate. Nothing personal against him at all. I would love for him to be great, but I don't think that is in the cards for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mastercheddaar Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017 3 hours ago, Thomas5737 said: The offensive line, Gordon, Coleman, Crowell, Duke, Ogbah, Kirksey, Collins, McCourty, Shelton, Shobert, BBC... Aside from Joe Thomas we really do not have anyone that has been with this team for over 3 seasons. I'm trying here and can't think of anyone else. The LS maybe? Bitonio? Um does Gordon really count? There is the problem. We have to start rookies and if they cannot hit the ground running we suffer. Having 3 rookie picked over QBs from weak QB classes without ANY veteran presence on the team is a huge reason why we are at the precipice of 0-16. Hue Lue deserves a big bite of this turd sandwich, don't get me wrong, but Kizer, Kessler and Hogan as the ONLY QBs on this team at the start of the season really killed us. Sashi Brown was the blame for not having a vet on this team. Sashi was the reason we didn't trade for one or sign one. He is gone. We went out and got arguably the best GM available before NYG could interview him. Kizer won't be starting next year if he is even on the team. Just realized I'm long boating lol.... That is all Mastercheddaar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted December 28, 2017 Author Share Posted December 28, 2017 3 hours ago, Mastercheddaar said: Aside from Joe Thomas we really do not have anyone that has been with this team for over 3 seasons. I'm trying here and can't think of anyone else. The LS maybe? Bitonio? Um does Gordon really count? There is the problem. We have to start rookies and if they cannot hit the ground running we suffer. Having 3 rookie picked over QBs from weak QB classes without ANY veteran presence on the team is a huge reason why we are at the precipice of 0-16. Hue Lue deserves a big bite of this turd sandwich, don't get me wrong, but Kizer, Kessler and Hogan as the ONLY QBs on this team at the start of the season really killed us. Sashi Brown was the blame for not having a vet on this team. Sashi was the reason we didn't trade for one or sign one. He is gone. We went out and got arguably the best GM available before NYG could interview him. Kizer won't be starting next year if he is even on the team. Just realized I'm long boating lol.... That is all Mastercheddaar Yeah we're year 2 in a rebuild that is usually what happens if you "rebuild right". We could have hung on to RGIII or McCown but Kessler outperformed them last year so I didn't see a reason for it. I think Hogan has potential but he should have been QB #3 all year. Kizer deserved the chance to start from what he showed in practice and preseason. Kessler should have become starter after the Titans game and the offense adjusted to him. Run the football, let Kessler try to convert 3rd and 5 and occasionally find an open guy with playaction. We wouldn't be a playoff team by any means but we would have won a couple games and at least Hue wouldn't be lake bound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aztec Hammer Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017 Apparently no Roethlisberger and Bell for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted December 28, 2017 Author Share Posted December 28, 2017 7 minutes ago, Aztec Hammer said: Apparently no Roethlisberger and Bell for this. That means Duke Johnson will be the 2nd leading receiver (in yards) in this game and Seth DeValve will be 4th. Crowell will be the leading rusher, Kizer will be second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candyman93 Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017 53 minutes ago, Aztec Hammer said: Apparently no Roethlisberger and Bell for this. Sweet so it might be exactly like last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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