squire12 Posted October 23 Share Posted October 23 3 hours ago, TitanLegend said: Ownership can pay the contracts being converted to..bonuses? I forget the exact method, but it just requires them paying out of pocket and it allows them to get around the cap. I don't think that is how it works. If you have evidence this is how it works, please provide a link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Ramster Posted October 23 Share Posted October 23 1 hour ago, Kingram said: I think they're going to force Jordan to retire. It's going to be "retire or we're forced to cut you" and I can't see him wanting to go play for one year on the vet minimum somewhere. He's a huge cap savings this year, they almost have to. Jordan is due that money guaranteed though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanLegend Posted October 23 Share Posted October 23 10 minutes ago, squire12 said: I don't think that is how it works. If you have evidence this is how it works, please provide a link It's converting it to a signing bonus, which the Saints use alongside methods such as adding years to spread out hits as well. https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/39585220/saints-2024-salary-cap-free-agency-andrus-peat-alvin-kamara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakuvious Posted October 23 Share Posted October 23 3 hours ago, TitanLegend said: Ownership can pay the contracts being converted to..bonuses? I forget the exact method, but it just requires them paying out of pocket and it allows them to get around the cap. It's not getting around the cap, it's just borrowing from future years. There's no way to actually circumvent the salary cap. All money paid must be paid against the cap eventually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakuvious Posted October 23 Share Posted October 23 1 hour ago, Kingram said: I think they're going to force Jordan to retire. It's going to be "retire or we're forced to cut you" and I can't see him wanting to go play for one year on the vet minimum somewhere. He's a huge cap savings this year, they almost have to. Jordan retiring actually raises his cap hit, unless he does it in June or later. There's little functional difference cap wise between him retiring and them cutting him. The guaranteed money all still accelerates. It can provide relief after June, but it won't do anything to get them under the cap for free agency and the draft and all. Cap hit next year is $20M if he stays, would be like $22.5M if he retires. It would lower his overall cap hit across the next two years. Just doesn't really do anything to help them get under for the coming offseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingram Posted October 23 Share Posted October 23 1 hour ago, Jakuvious said: Jordan retiring actually raises his cap hit, unless he does it in June or later. There's little functional difference cap wise between him retiring and them cutting him. The guaranteed money all still accelerates. It can provide relief after June, but it won't do anything to get them under the cap for free agency and the draft and all. Cap hit next year is $20M if he stays, would be like $22.5M if he retires. It would lower his overall cap hit across the next two years. Just doesn't really do anything to help them get under for the coming offseason. Yes, but I'm 100% sure Cam Jordan would wait until after June to help the Saints. Cutting or retiring post 6/1 saves them a good chunk of change. My point really is the Saints roster isn't as devoid of talent as people in here are suggesting. They're just getting absolutely destroyed by injuries and have a mediocre HC who can't cover up those holes. Hopefully Dennis Allen is fired and they can stay relatively healthy next year, but I don't the Saints are going to be some 3-4 win team for the next 5 years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingram Posted October 23 Share Posted October 23 1 hour ago, El Ramster said: Jordan is due that money guaranteed though. Post 6/1 will still significantly lower the cap hit for 2025, which is all they need. They have, I believe, the most players under contract in the league going into 2025 with 44 so after this off-season the "cap hell" is over unless Loomis foolishly restructures guys like Carr, Lattimore, etc. He shouldn't need to though as Ramcyzk is retiring, and I'm under the belief that Cam Jordan will as well. You also have some fairly obvious cuts to make with guys like Jamaal Williams and Khalen Saunders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakuvious Posted October 23 Share Posted October 23 7 minutes ago, Kingram said: Yes, but I'm 100% sure Cam Jordan would wait until after June to help the Saints. Cutting or retiring post 6/1 saves them a good chunk of change. 5 minutes ago, Kingram said: Post 6/1 will still significantly lower the cap hit for 2025, which is all they need. They have, I believe, the most players under contract in the league going into 2025 with 44 so after this off-season the "cap hell" is over unless Loomis foolishly restructures guys like Carr, Lattimore, etc. He shouldn't need to though as Ramcyzk is retiring, and I'm under the belief that Cam Jordan will as well. You also have some fairly obvious cuts to make with guys like Jamaal Williams and Khalen Saunders. Yes, I'm sure he would. Similar to the recent guys in Philly who have done the same. But that cap relief doesn't come until June 1st, so even if Jordan and Ramcyzk retire, and they're able to do it after June 1st to spread the cap hit out, you have to carry the entire cap hit of both until June 1st. So if they do that, it does not help with the $80M in space that needs to be cleared before the start of the new league year. So the idea that they won't need to restructure guys like Carr, because Ramcyzk and Jordan will retire, doesn't track. It will provide relief, eventually, but you have to get under the cap like 3 months before that. So they're again going to have no choice but to restructure Carr and Lattimore and Hill and Kamara (this may have already done that for next year, haven't seen the details yet.) The cycle must continue. This is a common misunderstanding with June 1st designations. It allows you to cut them early and still spread the cap hit, but the cap implications still don't arrive until June 1st. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raves Posted October 23 Share Posted October 23 Based on what I'm seeing using overthecap, the Saints can restructure just 8 players to get to 17 mil of cap space for 2025 with still ~15 mil in cap space in 2026. Then they can cut Carr post June 1st to clear up ~30 mil for 2026. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted October 23 Share Posted October 23 6 hours ago, TitanLegend said: Ownership can pay the contracts being converted to..bonuses? I forget the exact method, but it just requires them paying out of pocket and it allows them to get around the cap. Doesn’t get around the cap. They pay the money up front and it spreads that dollar amount (in cap hits) into the remaining years, but that amount is still due against the cap in future years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted October 23 Share Posted October 23 (edited) 3 hours ago, TitanLegend said: It's converting it to a signing bonus, which the Saints use alongside methods such as adding years to spread out hits as well. https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/39585220/saints-2024-salary-cap-free-agency-andrus-peat-alvin-kamara That is money that falls under the salary cap amount. It's the same amount of salary cap that all 32 teams have to be under. It's not money being spent that falls outside of the salary cap. Edited October 23 by squire12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted October 24 Share Posted October 24 (edited) Dude went from being on the trade block to extended in like 2 days At what point do the Saints implode from all of these salary cap gymnastics they've been doing? Edited October 24 by NYRaider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingram Posted October 24 Share Posted October 24 1 hour ago, NYRaider said: Dude went from being on the trade block to extended in like 2 days At what point do the Saints implode from all of these salary cap gymnastics they've been doing? Kamara refuted the report directly that he asked out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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