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Week 17: The End: Washington Redskins @ New York Giants

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Kip Smithers said:

What? The Panthers have been consistently in the playoffs which cannot he said for us. Panthers fans were sad to see Gettleman go while pretty much every Giants fan was happy to see JR go, what does that tell you? 

Yes they have tried enough to put weapons around him but they also have a invested in the LB position something we have neglected. 

 

The Panthers are in the playoffs because of Newton and Kuechly, not anything to do with Gettleman. We aren't in the playoffs because our QB Eli injured our best receivers, nothing to do with Reese being bad at his job. Reese tried to get rid of Eli and was fired for it.  We reached the playoffs last year without fantastic LBs. Goodson is above average and a good enough LB. 

Edited by celestial

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9 minutes ago, Kip Smithers said:

Draft Chubb or Wilkins, or most preferably trade down. If we were Dallas or Philly? Sure. But we ain’t. We draft a day 1 contributer. What annoys me is that we so desperately need a rangy LB and UGA has Smith who fits that bill but he’s not worth the second pick and he’s not gonna be there at 34. Lorenzo Carter is another guy who will be gone by 34. 

You speak wise words, que mas sabe- a Day 1 contributor at that high a pick makes a lot of sense.

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6 minutes ago, celestial said:

The Panthers are in the playoffs because of Newton and Kuechly, not anything to do with Gettleman. We aren't in the playoffs because our QB Eli injured our best receivers, nothing to do with Reese being bad at his job. Reese tried to get rid of Eli and was fired for it.  We reached the playoffs last year without fantastic LBs. Goodson is above average and a good enough LB. 

And they have a great front 7. Not just Kuechly. They had a great rotation on the D-line. Shaq Thompson and Thomas Davis. It’s not just Keuchly. He’s an elite player so he obviously helps just like Odell Beckham helps the entire offense. We miss the playoffs 5 out of the last 6 years it’s got nothing to do with Eli injuring our receivers ( which I only blame him for the Odell one). We reached the playoffs because he hasd great play in the secondary and we were the best run defense in the league and it doesn’t igbnore that every TE we play against seems to have a big day, hmmm wonder why? And because we weren’t good enough in protecting Eli. 

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Kip Smithers said:

And they have a great front 7. Not just Kuechly. They had a great rotation on the D-line. Shaq Thompson and Thomas Davis. It’s not just Keuchly. He’s an elite player so he obviously helps just like Odell Beckham helps the entire offense. We miss the playoffs 5 out of the last 6 years it’s got nothing to do with Eli injuring our receivers ( which I only blame him for the Odell one). We reached the playoffs because he hasd great play in the secondary and we were the best run defense in the league and it doesn’t igbnore that every TE we play against seems to have a big day, hmmm wonder why? And because we weren’t good enough in protecting Eli. 

When Kuechly doesn't play, their defense isn't good. Kuechly is a HOF LB he makes their defense. For example, Wentz and the Philly offense only started playing well against the Panthers D when Kuechly went out.  We miss the players because of our QB, which is inaccurate, immobile and mistake prone. In 2016 we had a weak schedule and hid Eli. Manning had protection in his last game, and he still fumbled and still threw a pick against a bad Redskins D. Eli also threw picks from clean pockets against the Eagles and Rams. I posted the gifs in another thread. The gifs show Eli setting up from clean pockets for 4-5 seconds before throwing picks.

Edited by celestial

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4 minutes ago, celestial said:

When Kuechly doesn't play, their defense isn't good. Kuechly is a HOF LB. We miss the players because of our QB, which is inaccurate, immobile and mistake prone. Eli had protection in his last game, and still fumbled and still threw a pick against a bad Redskins D. Eli threw picks from clean pockets against the Eagles and Rams. I posted the gifs in another thread..

And when Odell doesn’t play we aren’t good. He threw a pick that where Preston Smith made a great play. Eli had protection and he had a total of 8 drops by receivers. And take a look at the receivers he had out there, we had to rely on Rhett Ellison as our reliable target let that sink in and we had a bunch of other PS receivers. Like we didn’t even have Tavarres King and Roger Lewis which says it all. You posted those gifs and i rebuffed each and every one of them. You proved you can’t objectively analyse QB play.

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1 hour ago, Kip Smithers said:

Draft Chubb or Wilkins, or most preferably trade down. If we were Dallas or Philly? Sure. But we ain’t. We draft a day 1 contributer. What annoys me is that we so desperately need a rangy LB and UGA has Smith who fits that bill but he’s not worth the second pick and he’s not gonna be there at 34. Lorenzo Carter is another guy who will be gone by 34. 

The thing is, Barkley would contribute the most on day 1. He put up big numbers behind a suspect o-line in college, so it wouldn't be anything new for him. He's also a great receiver and return man, so he'll have many ways to put up points and contribute right away. Darkwa hit 4.4ypc in this awful situation, imagine what the talent of Barkley could do. He's a franchise changing player. None of the top QBs, DL, or OL in the draft are IMO. Like I said, I'm normally not a fan of RBs in rd1, especially when you have other more pressing needs, but you can get good lineman in the next couple rounds. You're not going to get a Barkley in any other round or another draft for that matter.

 

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13 hours ago, w4rrior723 said:

The thing is, Barkley would contribute the most on day 1. He put up big numbers behind a suspect o-line in college, so it wouldn't be anything new for him. He's also a great receiver and return man, so he'll have many ways to put up points and contribute right away. Darkwa hit 4.4ypc in this awful situation, imagine what the talent of Barkley could do. He's a franchise changing player. None of the top QBs, DL, or OL in the draft are IMO. Like I said, I'm normally not a fan of RBs in rd1, especially when you have other more pressing needs, but you can get good lineman in the next couple rounds. You're not going to get a Barkley in any other round or another draft for that matter.

 

And you can also get a good-great RB in the second and third round. We need to stop being lured in by the flash and glamour of these skill position players and go for guys that most contribute to wins, hence you go for someone in the trenches. 

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5 hours ago, Kip Smithers said:

And you can also get a good-great RB in the second and third round. We need to stop being lured in by the flash and glamour of these skill position players and go for guys that most contribute to wins, hence you go for someone in the trenches. 

There's no one else like Barkley in this draft, or any other recent draft for that matter. We can get impact lineman in rounds 2-3 and next year. We're prob gonna suck next year, anyway, so we have another year to fully build up the trenches...

Haha I know, that last sounds ridiculous and I don't fully agree with it myself. Ideally I'd like to trade down a few spots and get a couple extra day 2 picks. Then I think it would be okay to take Barkley if he's still there since we have a few extra picks. If he's gone then you can go straight to the trenches with Nelson, Chubb, or BPA

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1 hour ago, w4rrior723 said:

There's no one else like Barkley in this draft, or any other recent draft for that matter. We can get impact lineman in rounds 2-3 and next year. We're prob gonna suck next year, anyway, so we have another year to fully build up the trenches...

Haha I know, that last sounds ridiculous and I don't fully agree with it myself. Ideally I'd like to trade down a few spots and get a couple extra day 2 picks. Then I think it would be okay to take Barkley if he's still there since we have a few extra picks. If he's gone then you can go straight to the trenches with Nelson, Chubb, or BPA

My heart says to draft Saquon Barkley because I think he is a unique talent that can completely change an offense. I'm not saying we don't need to improve our offensive line, it's obviously our biggest weakness but I think about the value LeVeon Bell has to the PIT offense. The value David Johnson had last year for Arizona. I think it's what we need to truly be an offensive force.

With that being said, it's really difficult to pass up on a QB when you are drafting that high, and someone valued as a top pick is there. I understand the angst of drafting Darnold, Rosen, etc. but the only slam dunk QBs are generational talents. Nobody was convinced on Jared Goff, Deshaun Watson, Carson Wentz, RGIII, Marcus Mariota, Sam Bradford, Cam Newton, etc. Some hit, others didn't but the franchises who hit are set for the next 7-10 years. It's the most important position in football and until you have one, you're not realistically competing for championships.

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23 hours ago, Kip Smithers said:

And when Odell doesn’t play we aren’t good. He threw a pick that where Preston Smith made a great play. Eli had protection and he had a total of 8 drops by receivers. And take a look at the receivers he had out there, we had to rely on Rhett Ellison as our reliable target let that sink in and we had a bunch of other PS receivers. Like we didn’t even have Tavarres King and Roger Lewis which says it all. You posted those gifs and i rebuffed each and every one of them. You proved you can’t objectively analyse QB play.

What does Odell have to do with anything? 

I mentioned games Eli got picked, not just the most recent one, but I digress. Preston picked off Eli because Manning was too slow in his set up and gave away the play with his eyes. Preston Smith read Eli's eyes, so the great play from Preston came from poor play from Eli. Every QB has drops. Eli has more of them b/c he's inaccurate. Drops matter more for our offense b/c Eli basically checks down every play, meaning receivers have to be more perfect every drive in order for us to score. I would respect your blaming King and co. for drops, but Eli couldn't do anything with OBJ or Marshall either. 

You never rebuffed any of my gifs either. Eli is ranked 27th by PFF b/c they see Eli missing wide open players from clean pockets, same I do. Players like King only deserve blame when QB play is adequate and the receiver fails the QB. But when Eli throws behind a receiver forcing unnecessary adjustment, or forces OBJ to jump twice and get injured for no reason, that's on Eli. 

To go back to my point, Gettleman is a worse talent evaluator than Reese. I hope we draft the BPA pass rusher. I like Barkley but there are other RBs and we have a good one already.

Edited by celestial

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1 hour ago, celestial said:

What does Odell have to do with anything? 

I mentioned games Eli got picked, not just the most recent one, but I digress. Preston picked off Eli because Manning was too slow in his set up and gave away the play with his eyes. Preston Smith read Eli's eyes, so the great play from Preston came from poor play from Eli. Every QB has drops. Eli has more of them b/c he's inaccurate. Drops matter more for our offense b/c Eli basically checks down every play, meaning receivers have to be more perfect every drive in order for us to score. I would respect your blaming King and co. for drops, but Eli couldn't do anything with OBJ or Marshall either. 

You never rebuffed any of my gifs either. Eli is ranked 27th by PFF b/c they see Eli missing wide open players from clean pockets, same I do. Players like King only deserve blame when QB play is adequate and the receiver fails the QB. But when Eli throws behind a receiver forcing unnecessary adjustment, or forces OBJ to jump twice and get injured for no reason, that's on Eli. 

To go back to my point, Gettleman is a worse talent evaluator than Reese. I hope we draft the BPA pass rusher. I like Barkley but there are other RBs and we have a good one already.

The Odell was an example of why you saying the Panthers Defense without Kuechly is bad is flawed.

This is why you can’t be argued with. You can’t be objective. It was a design screen, meaning he has to wait a bit for it to be set up. That’s just nonsense. He is literally looking off the defenders to not give the screen away and only turns to the back when he is about to release it. Every QB has drops that’s right, except not every QB has 8 drops in one game. Eli checks down every play, not even gonna get into how wrong that is because why bother. 

Im done here. I don’t mind a back and forth but when the other guy can’t even be objective then there is no point in continuing.

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5 hours ago, w4rrior723 said:

There's no one else like Barkley in this draft, or any other recent draft for that matter. We can get impact lineman in rounds 2-3 and next year. We're prob gonna suck next year, anyway, so we have another year to fully build up the trenches...

Haha I know, that last sounds ridiculous and I don't fully agree with it myself. Ideally I'd like to trade down a few spots and get a couple extra day 2 picks. Then I think it would be okay to take Barkley if he's still there since we have a few extra picks. If he's gone then you can go straight to the trenches with Nelson, Chubb, or BPA

For as good as he is, he’s a luxury pick. Bradley Chubb is an elite prospect. Khalil Mack, Joey Bosa good. I’m not passing that up for a guy who plays a fairly interchangeable position. Time and time again it has been proven that you can find a very productive RB beyond round 1

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5 hours ago, Kip Smithers said:

For as good as he is, he’s a luxury pick. Bradley Chubb is an elite prospect. Khalil Mack, Joey Bosa good. I’m not passing that up for a guy who plays a fairly interchangeable position. Time and time again it has been proven that you can find a very productive RB beyond round 1

I could argue Chubb is more of a luxury pick than Barkley since we already have JPP and Vernon. They're not elite pass-rushers, but based on everything I've read on Chubb he isn't either. He seems to be more Chris Long than Mack or Bosa. Who's our best RB? Gallman? Perkins? *puke* Darkwa looks solid but he's a UFA. How interchangeable are RBs really given we've failed to have a decent once since Bradshaw and Jacobs left? How long ago was that now? 5-6 years?

Bottom line, Gettleman said there's 3 things that every successful team he's been a part of has done at a high level. That's run the football, stop the run, and rush the passer. Barkley will instantly make us a lot better at one of those. What other draft pick could you say will do that, especially to the same extent? Chubb is a great run defender, but our DE's are already stout against the run. How much better does he really make us? We have a suspect o-line, true, but so does PSU and Barkley dominated behind theirs all year. Adrian Peterson often made bad o-lines look good in his prime and many scouts are calling Barkley the best RB coming out since AP. 

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15 hours ago, w4rrior723 said:

I could argue Chubb is more of a luxury pick than Barkley since we already have JPP and Vernon. They're not elite pass-rushers, but based on everything I've read on Chubb he isn't either. He seems to be more Chris Long than Mack or Bosa. Who's our best RB? Gallman? Perkins? *puke* Darkwa looks solid but he's a UFA. How interchangeable are RBs really given we've failed to have a decent once since Bradshaw and Jacobs left? How long ago was that now? 5-6 years?

Bottom line, Gettleman said there's 3 things that every successful team he's been a part of has done at a high level. That's run the football, stop the run, and rush the passer. Barkley will instantly make us a lot better at one of those. What other draft pick could you say will do that, especially to the same extent? Chubb is a great run defender, but our DE's are already stout against the run. How much better does he really make us? We have a suspect o-line, true, but so does PSU and Barkley dominated behind theirs all year. Adrian Peterson often made bad o-lines look good in his prime and many scouts are calling Barkley the best RB coming out since AP. 

Chubb is just as good as the guys you mentioned. He makes it look easy vs tackles and is a great against the run. JPP cannot be relied upon. If he’s healthy, great but he gets banged up too often. Chubb makes our pass rush instantly better. This draft has a tonne of RBs that we can get can makes us instantly better. 

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On 1/9/2018 at 4:55 PM, Kip Smithers said:

Draft Chubb or Wilkins, or most preferably trade down. If we were Dallas or Philly? Sure. But we ain’t. We draft a day 1 contributer. What annoys me is that we so desperately need a rangy LB and UGA has Smith who fits that bill but he’s not worth the second pick and he’s not gonna be there at 34. Lorenzo Carter is another guy who will be gone by 34. 

There is zero value in drafting Wilkins for us. He would just be sitting behind Snacks and Dalvin. No thanks. 

I like Chubb's game, but the lack of bend is terrifying. Again no thanks. 

This is thinking about value in a vacuum, but if Smith fits what we want/need taking him at #2 is as not far fetched as you think. I have him rated at #8 currently. In simpler terms, I would be fine with Smith; I just wouldn't be as happy as I would be with other prospects. 

Another name to think about in the second round would be someone like Tavin Bryan in the second. He's a JJ Watt-Lite 

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