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Coaching Changes.


jleisher

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Just now, CWood21 said:

I'm sorry, but that's not very good reasoning for me.  Either way, you have someone in the booth radioing down what the defense is doing, so in theory you're actually cutting out room for error if the DC is the one making that assessment.

And how many people does Capers have to go through to tell individual defensive players individual things?

Watch an entire football game worth of footage from any DC who is on the field and tell me how much they communicate with individual players throughout a game.  If it's less than 10 individual conversations, I'll admit it's a non-issue.

Just now, TransientTexan said:

Yea sounds like more narcissism. Becoming quite common here.

Thanks so much for your invaluable input in the discussion.  Really added so much I just don't think this entire thread is worth reading without these two sentences.  You're the Packer forum MVP. 

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28 minutes ago, TransientTexan said:

Yea sounds like more narcissism. Becoming quite common here.

I mean, I don't even mind having the preference of having the DC on the field as opposed to the booth but I really, really hate the notion that he's an inferior coach or he's at a disadvantage because he's in the booth.

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3 minutes ago, HorizontoZenith said:

And how many people does Capers have to go through to tell individual defensive players individual things?

Watch an entire football game worth of footage from any DC who is on the field and tell me how much they communicate with individual players throughout a game.  If it's less than 10 individual conversations, I'll admit it's a non-issue.

Maybe I'm off-base here, but Dom calls in the play and when he sees the offensive formation/play call, he calls an audible which goes from his headset to the player with the sticker (I believe it's Blake Martinez, but it might be Morgan Burnett I don't remember).  In your example, the coach in the press box calls down the formation down to Dom who makes his adjustment.  It's not a huge difference, but there is a small difference in amount of time it takes for Dom to get the adjustment called.

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49 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Maybe I'm off-base here, but Dom calls in the play and when he sees the offensive formation/play call, he calls an audible which goes from his headset to the player with the sticker (I believe it's Blake Martinez, but it might be Morgan Burnett I don't remember).  In your example, the coach in the press box calls down the formation down to Dom who makes his adjustment.  It's not a huge difference, but there is a small difference in amount of time it takes for Dom to get the adjustment called.

You're talking about playcalling duties only.  I'm gonna grant that for playcalling purposes, it's a benefit to play callers to be up there.  My issue with it is the flow of the game and the leadership angle.  Defensive players 10 times more than offensive players need a different mentality.  So the mentality aspect is 1.

The image aspect is 2.

The in-game communications that Capers is missing is 3.  We all know how complicated the game of football is.  How much is our defense missing by Capers not being able to communicate with 11 starting players throughout the game? 

Say what you want about Kevin Greene, but he's the perfect example of what I'm talking about.  He was down on the field.  He went up and talked face-to-face with Clay Matthews.  He told Matthews it was time to make a play.  Clay Matthews makes one of the most iconic plays in Packer football history.

Now how does that go over if Greene had been in the press box?  Does he tell AJ Hawk, "Yo, AJ, gonna need you to go up to Clay and tell him it's time." 

Don't think I'm saying there's a tangible detriment to sitting in the press box.  I'm not.  I'm talking about the rest of it. 

I don't have a problem with it unless the defense isn't good for 7 years. 

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I think professional players need this “motivation” a lot less than people think. It’s not Hollywood & these players are grown men. The position coaches can get in guys faces if that’s really needed. I will say from experience that nobody I played with cared where the DC called plays from. 

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1 hour ago, HorizontoZenith said:

You're talking about playcalling duties only.  I'm gonna grant that for playcalling purposes, it's a benefit to play callers to be up there.  My issue with it is the flow of the game and the leadership angle.  Defensive players 10 times more than offensive players need a different mentality.  So the mentality aspect is 1.

The image aspect is 2.

First off, I'm not sure that the "flow" of the game is the issue that you're making it out to be.  What exactly does there stand to be gained from your coordinator being on the sideline as opposed to in the press box?  Can your positional coaches not echo those concerns up to Dom in the box.  Secondly, what image?  That he doesn't like the cold.  I hate to burst your bubble, but there aren't very many people who like the cold.  If you're going to complain about that, I just don't see any reason to complain that his "image" is ruined by him being in the box.  I'll give you that he doesn't have instant access to position players, but that to me displays a level of trust with his positional coaches.  Honestly, I don't think either one offers an advantage over the other...I think it's largely a matter of preference.

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4 hours ago, HorizontoZenith said:

You're talking about playcalling duties only.  I'm gonna grant that for playcalling purposes, it's a benefit to play callers to be up there.  My issue with it is the flow of the game and the leadership angle.  Defensive players 10 times more than offensive players need a different mentality.  So the mentality aspect is 1.

The image aspect is 2.

The in-game communications that Capers is missing is 3.  We all know how complicated the game of football is.  How much is our defense missing by Capers not being able to communicate with 11 starting players throughout the game? 

Say what you want about Kevin Greene, but he's the perfect example of what I'm talking about.  He was down on the field.  He went up and talked face-to-face with Clay Matthews.  He told Matthews it was time to make a play.  Clay Matthews makes one of the most iconic plays in Packer football history.

Now how does that go over if Greene had been in the press box?  Does he tell AJ Hawk, "Yo, AJ, gonna need you to go up to Clay and tell him it's time." 

Don't think I'm saying there's a tangible detriment to sitting in the press box.  I'm not.  I'm talking about the rest of it. 

I don't have a problem with it unless the defense isn't good for 7 years. 

Dom was the DC in the booth when this happened.

This is what positional coaches exist for. He can tell the LB Coach and the LB coach tells Clay. Not that complicated

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9 minutes ago, SpeightTheVillain said:

Dom was the DC in the booth when this happened.

This is what positional coaches exist for. He can tell the LB Coach and the LB coach tells Clay. Not that complicated

Exactly. I said earlier that there's still coaches to fire guys up down there.

IDK how good of a coach Kevin was, but I'm guessing he just did the part so well that he looked better than he probably was.

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7 hours ago, HorizontoZenith said:

You're talking about playcalling duties only.  I'm gonna grant that for playcalling purposes, it's a benefit to play callers to be up there.  My issue with it is the flow of the game and the leadership angle.  Defensive players 10 times more than offensive players need a different mentality.  So the mentality aspect is 1.

The image aspect is 2.

The in-game communications that Capers is missing is 3.  We all know how complicated the game of football is.  How much is our defense missing by Capers not being able to communicate with 11 starting players throughout the game? 

Say what you want about Kevin Greene, but he's the perfect example of what I'm talking about.  He was down on the field.  He went up and talked face-to-face with Clay Matthews.  He told Matthews it was time to make a play.  Clay Matthews makes one of the most iconic plays in Packer football history.

Now how does that go over if Greene had been in the press box?  Does he tell AJ Hawk, "Yo, AJ, gonna need you to go up to Clay and tell him it's time." 

Don't think I'm saying there's a tangible detriment to sitting in the press box.  I'm not.  I'm talking about the rest of it. 

I don't have a problem with it unless the defense isn't good for 7 years. 

I'm with you on this!

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I get the communication is different if it's face to face rather than over the phone, but there's a row of phones in the coaches booth sitting right next to Dom, and an identical set down on the Packers' sideline. Dom literally calls down to one of those phones, The AV guy picks up the call, calls over to Winston Moss and Clay Matthews. They come over, and Dom speaks to Clay directly. It's not like you've got a game of telephone going where 8 people have to relay a message. 

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Just now, AlexGreen#20 said:

I get the communication is different if it's face to face rather than over the phone, but there's a row of phones in the coaches booth sitting right next to Dom, and an identical set down on the Packers' sideline. Dom literally calls down to one of those phones, The AV guy picks up the call, calls over to Winston Moss and Clay Matthews. They come over, and Dom speaks to Clay directly. It's not like you've got a game of telephone going where 8 people have to relay a message. 

As I've acknowledged plenty of times, I know it's not a big issue.  It's a preference thing for me personally and I'm not trying to convince anybody that sitting in the booth is worse than being on the sidelines.  It's purely preference, and it's my preference. 

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Just now, HorizontoZenith said:

As I've acknowledged plenty of times, I know it's not a big issue.  It's a preference thing for me personally and I'm not trying to convince anybody that sitting in the booth is worse than being on the sidelines.  It's purely preference, and it's my preference. 

It's not criticism of the opinion, Just trying to set some people straight on the process of what occurs. 

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To be clear, I agree with HZ. While I prefer a sideline coach, the bottom line is all that counts. I'm sure people on here can show evidence that both kinds of coaches have had success. I just have a hunch that sideline coaches might have more success. Anyone have any data?

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